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New Feature Focus: The Art of War

Discussion in 'Humankind by Amplitude' started by Elhoim, Feb 25, 2021.

  1. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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  2. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir Emperor

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    Good explanation, although as someone who had played 2 Opendevs of Humankind, I wonder what late-game art of war will look like.
     
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  3. FinalDoomsday

    FinalDoomsday Prince

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    The wide range of cultural differentiation of generic units is such a good feature that I have sorely missed in other games. The effort this must have taken clearly shows the team has great care and respect for the cultures they are trying to depict, good show!
     
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  4. Uberfrog

    Uberfrog Deity

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    I agree!

    It's something the Civ series has slowly been getting better at, but they still seem to lost motivation halfway through the game and make everything from musketmen onwards look the same :(

    Really pleased to see the unit art diversity: I wonder if it extends to ships?
     
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  5. Catoninetales_Amplitude

    Catoninetales_Amplitude Prince

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    I'm afraid all non-Emblematic naval units and modern vehicle units (both land and air) will only have one model each.
     
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  6. FinalDoomsday

    FinalDoomsday Prince

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    Do modern infantry and crewed weapons have any variety? Like Soviet uniforms and American uniforms.
     
  7. Catoninetales_Amplitude

    Catoninetales_Amplitude Prince

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    I think so, but I am not sure, and even if they do, the differences are harder to see than in the earlier eras.
     
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  8. Uberfrog

    Uberfrog Deity

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    Understandable. It’s a little disappointing to see all the ships look the same, but I appreciate any attempt at diversity requires a lot of artistic licence — especially where it concerns Olmec galleys or Aztec caravels!

    The only attempt that springs to mind, surprisingly enough, is Age of Empires 2, which uses different sail types to distinguish different cultures at sea. Particularly odd, considering that AoE2 doesn’t otherwise really bother with diverse unit graphics (Mesoamerican monks being the only other example I can think of).

    Spoiler AoE 2 ships :

     
  9. FinalDoomsday

    FinalDoomsday Prince

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    Yeah its not as dramatic but still noticable especially between Soviets/US/China I think having Soviet soldiers wear Ushankas for instance would be nice. Details like that help prevent everyone looking the same in the modern era.
     
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  10. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    Uniforms became a near-universal military requirement along with really effective firearms - at a distance of 100 meters or more you had to be able to tell at a glance that Those Other Guys were enemy and not friendly through the dust and smoke of a battlefield, and having different colored coats made it a lot easier.

    Since until the Modern Era many of the basic elements of the uniform (cut of the coat, headgear) were nearly universal, you could get away with the late renaissance/early Industrial Era troops just having a color change to the coat, lapels and vests and cuffs, leggings or stockings but keep the same graphic otherwise.

    Once you get longer ranges of weapons (late Industrial/Modern Eras), of course, everybody goes into uniforms the color of the terrain as much as possible and the shape and style of headgear (helmets, hats, caps, berets), boots/shoes, and equipment becomes the identification factors - and it all gets more complicated graphically.

    Still, someday somebody is going to market a historical/semi-historical game that actually takes advantage of the huge variety and colors of costume, uniform, equipment variety in historical units, and it will be nearly impossible to play because everybody will just be sitting there staring at the stunning variety of unit graphics . . .
     
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  11. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    So EU4 with all unit graphic DLC?
     
  12. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    That would be a start, but leave out the last colorful fling of uniformery in the mid-19th century (before the smokeless powder long range rifle) when artificial dyes made it possible to briefly go really wild with bright colors - this is when the British officially changed their Red Coat for "British Scarlet", a much brighter red, and 'blue' meant anything from dark Royal Blue to Turquoise . . .
     
  13. Catoninetales_Amplitude

    Catoninetales_Amplitude Prince

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    I've checked in the dev build and with the artists, and there definitely are variations in the Contemporary Era uniforms. But even with a differently cut uniform, that's a more subtle difference than between some of the earlier cultures, in my opinion.
     
  14. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    On the one hand, all uniforms since the introduction of long range weapons have the overriding concern of hiding the wearer from enemy observation compared to earlier, when the intent was to make him visible and intimidating. On the other hand, the "subtle difference" can be iconic: the flat helmet screams WWI or British to everyone, the fur Ushanka is Russian/Soviet, camouflage patterns of any kind are Contemporary/Post-Modern - even though the Germans, Soviets and Americans all had units wearing them in WWII. A beret is worn by an Elite Unit in the imagination of the gamer, at least.

    So, those subtleties can matter to the gamer, and should at least be attempted if they can be done without taking resources away from fundamental issues of game play mechanics.
     
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  15. Catoninetales_Amplitude

    Catoninetales_Amplitude Prince

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    I can only re-iterate: There are differences. But since we are keeping the Contemporary Era gameplay and its combat, and the Contemporary Era cultures for Later (does this one get a ™ or not?), I can hardly go about describing all the differences I spotted to you and giving away all the surprises now, can I? :D
     
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  16. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    You could take the Paradox approach:

    "When you look at the [Redacted] on the [Redacted] units, you'll notice that [Redacted] are different for the [Redacted] culture compared to, say, [Redacted], [Redacted] or [Redacted]. Hopefully history buffs will appreciate the great work our artists did incorporating these sorts of details!"
     
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  17. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir Emperor

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    @Boris Gudenuf - Recently, some new information about the late game combat had been "soft leaked" on the Humankind wiki, one of which might addressed your concern with long range, indirect fire:

    upload_2021-3-27_14-40-23.png

    As far as I am aware, Industrial Artilleries and Modern Battleships have this trait. I assume the trait for Air units can achieve similar effect as well.
     
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  18. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    Exactly what I was talking about, and hoping for: In the 'late Eras' you should be able to influence the battlefield from off the battlefield with long range units like modern artillery and air power. In this specific case, the Bombard was historically precisely developed and built to 'bombard' cities (districts/quarters). It's a bit of a stretch to let it bombard battlefields from afar, since their effective/accurate range was only about a kilometer and most battlefields even in the late Medieval Era were bigger than that. Also, the target of a Bombard would have to be no more mobile than a city wall, because they took hours to reload and aim. I would have given the 'off battlefield' bombardment to a later type of artillery - like Late Industrial Era - and made the Bombard a 'transition' piece that was effective from a distance against districts/walls but not much help against units.
    Of course, given that at least the early Humankind Siege Units are all 'built on site' (siege only) giving a specific Siege action to a Bombard that is the first real siege unit that has to be built elsewhere and transported might have given coding problems: I'm not sure how 'hard coded' their categories and types/charactereistics of units are.

    Now tat they've announced formally a delay of release to August, that should give time for at least one more OpenDev: Bring on the late game combat and balance issues fo us to masticate!!
     
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  19. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir Emperor

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    I should have explained the information clearer - the "Bombard" here is a unit trait (instead of a type of unit) attaches to Late Industrial Era Artillery units and Modern Era Battleship units.

    So it is these units - not a "Bombard" unit - that can attack cities and other units from afar, and thus partly represents the modern long range fire.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2021
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  20. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    Thanks for the clarification: there was a unit list from someone some time ago that didn't include the Bombard, so I thought they had been doing some changes and additions!
    That means the Bombard trait means the ability to attack non-Units like Districts/Quarters?

    That could, at shorter ranges, apply as early as the Early Industrial Era Howitzers or Mortars, which were originally designed to attack cities by lobbing explosives over the walls from a distance.

    And if that trait also applies to strategic/heavy Bombers, one could recreate the Modern Era Strategic Bombing campaigns against enemy cities . . .

    For Modern Era (post 1905 CE) Artillery representation what is needed is the ability to attack enemy units from off the battlefield, but it doesn't look like that is included in the Bombard trait.
     

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