New Game Speeds

[JosEPh_II]

Same set-up and SVN level as previous Epic test above. Again Sped up by selected leader traits (Scientific, creative, foreign) that net to about 1 beaker per turn per city (say about +550 overall at this speed). Slowed by researching optional technologies (all except Druidism and Shamanism).

Gold income slower at start than Epic speed, but a bit higher at end (+26gold/turn at 100% science). May be impacted by Culture trait, expanding to resources sooner. Minimal trade at end.

Seems a bit off to me versus Epic speed finding - JosEPh, would you like another test run at Snail speed?

If you would that do another that would be excellent.

And yes if Sed life reached by 12,000BC then Research speed still too fast. Your leader traits do give you an advantage in research but even with your Trait boost I was expecting more in the 8,000BC range and would like to see the turn closer to 500.

Did any AI beat you to Sed Life? Or are they all behind because of your Traits?

JosEPh

 

[JosEPh_II]

Just committed new Research rates for Snail, Eon, and Eternity GS. Getting closer.

JosEPh

 

[SirJohnEh]

If you would that do another that would be excellent.

Did any AI beat you to Sed Life? Or are they all behind because of your Traits?

JosEPh

I did not get a "first to accomplish" message, and could easily have missed the "another civilization has reached..." text message flying by.

I will update to SVN 9262 to get latest research rate for Snail, and run another test. I'll keep everything else the same in my set-up, but poke around a bit more to check if another civilization hits Sedentary Lifestyle first.

 

[JosEPh_II]

If you are the 1st to Sed Life then you will get a Free Tech. This is how you know if you got there 1st.

Just reached Sed Life in an Eon game that was updated while in progress to the new research rates. I made Sed Life 1st. But I got there earlier than I wanted. So I'll have to start a new gam with today's Updated rates to compare.

JosEPh

 

[SirJohnEh]

... I was expecting more in the 8,000BC range and would like to see the turn closer to 500. .... Did any AI beat you to Sed Life? ...

JosEPh

Second test at Snail speed - completed Sedentary Lifestyle at turn 470 (10520BC). SVN level 9262 (latest research rate for Snail etc), with same map and options as my previous tests. Was beat by at least one AI civilization.

Could have reached Sedentary at turn 448 (12368 BC) by researching Sedentary at first opportunity, instead of completing several optional technologies to be consistent with my previous tests.

I think my leader traits (Scientific, creative, foreign) sped up research by about 700 beakers. This is only equivalent to about 4 turns at my final technology rate.

One unexpected observation: In a pop-up screen of "most advanced civilizations" about half-way through, I was the most advanced, followed by a "Barbarian Leader" and then by the other AI civilizations. Do the new "barbarian" civilizations actually learn new technologies, or this more likely just a fault in the pop-up screen?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Did you have neanderthal Cities Option On? As for the NPCs and in particular the Barbarian AI ThunderBrd is the one to ask since he developed that new game feature. I have been testing without Neanderthal Cities (Off).

10520BC is still too fast coupled with the turn(s) it was achieved (448 by rushing and 470, respectively).

I am also testing w/o Any leader traits being used (No Negative Traits Option and No Positive Trait Option) as with using Traits the range of Leaders influence upon research rate is pretty wide. Your Scientific + Creative is a considerable boost. So when I get my new Snail game to Sed. Life I'll compare and then see how much to adjust.

Your help has been very useful and I want to Thank you for it.

One thing about testing is that I've left behind several really good interesting games that would've been fun to continue. But I can only play so much. Grandkids being here last 3 days has slowed me down a bunch.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

The barbarian players are normally kept from those lists but that's in python and there's a few spots in python that need corrected properly still.

As for how barbarians get techs, they get them free when they are falling behind but they can also reach out for them, just slowly and without trying. The mass of spawned cities without penalties for size of empire and distance to capital may help significantly for them at first. It's kinda complicated how its setup and I haven't recently referred to it. It's not been changed except to enable more than one barbarian type state. And there are some loose frayed edges from that change.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

One unexpected observation: In a pop-up screen of "most advanced civilizations" about half-way through, I was the most advanced, followed by a "Barbarian Leader" and then by the other AI civilizations. Do the new "barbarian" civilizations actually learn new technologies, or this more likely just a fault in the pop-up screen?

The barbarian players are normally kept from those lists but that's in python and there's a few spots in python that need corrected properly still.

I have never been able to find those pop-up screens in Python and assumed that they were in the dll. I'll have a look in the dark corners and see if I can find them.

 

[Thunderbrd]

It's one of the places they assume the barbarian player is the last player. That issue has yet to be resolved in numerous spots and I'm not quite sure still how to best go about that.

 

[SirJohnEh]

Did you have neanderthal Cities Option On?
I am also testing w/o Any leader traits being used

Hi Joe. No, I do not have neanderthal Cities Option On. I'll wait for your next speed update to test at Snail speed again, this time w/o any leader traits used.

Meanwhile I'll continue my current game.... and work very very hard to stay ahead of those pesky animals and barbarians in technology In a previous test (with "Size Matters" on as usual), the Passive Animals AI created a super-bison merged 2 levels up .... no comment on how many hunters I may have lost before realizing this.

John

 

[Usul13]

SVN 9262, Marathon speed, Monarch difficulty, Large PerfectMongoose map, I'm with Russia, my leader is Ivan the Terrible. The Developing leaders option is on. I added the Scientific trait to my leader around 35000 - 30000 BC, I don't remember the exact time.

I reached Sedentary Lifestyle in 12754 BC. I researched every Prehistoric tech before Sedentary. The first civ reached Sedentary in 18165 BC.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

At some point as part of this we should move those "state of the world" popups to a more correct place for the author and probably add in a new one for the prehistoric era.

edit Forget it those are done in the exe as far as I can see

 

[JosEPh_II]

SVN 9263 Further research rate adjustments to Snail, Eon, and Eternity GS.

On last Snail test game using SVN 9262, Noble Difficulty, Continents map, reached Sed Life at turn 507 at 7907BC. No Leader Traits used. They throw out too big of a shadow in either direction for keeping a regimented pattern for testing. Especially Scientific and Creative which throws the research rate into a faster speed. Of course so do Wonders and Golden ages. As will using Options like More Resources and More Rivers. 1st city starting location very much influences the research rate while you only have 1 city. Lots of variables to try and keep the variances in a minimal impact range.

Plus keeping an eye on AI neighbors to see if they are keeping up or are falling behind.

More testing to be done.

And to those that are responding thanks. And give lots of details please.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

How many rounds is the first tech taking on an average start on snail?

 

[JosEPh_II]

How many rounds is the first tech taking on an average start on snail?

1st tech varies because of Goodie Huts if in initial city area, range so far has been 3-9 turns. After that it avgs about 7-9 turns thru the Preh Era. Latest update should push it more towards the 7-10 turn range, for a minimalist game that I test with.

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Snail Speed - I was first to Sedentary Lifestyle at turn 398 (of 4195) or 16,568 BC.

Only problem is I may have started before you did your changes to snail speed.

All traits off but my play style favours science. At that turn science was at 60% and I have -15 income due to too many subdued animals and hunters outside my borders.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Snail Speed - I was first to Sedentary Lifestyle at turn 398 (of 4195) or 16,568 BC.

Only problem is I may have started before you did your changes to snail speed.

All traits off but my play style favours science. At that turn science was at 60% and I have -15 income due to too many subdued animals and hunters outside my borders.

Yes, if you started your game before the 1st GS commit or even the 2nd you were using the Faster research rate for Snail. It's now much closer to turn 500 which should be closer to the target range of 8,000 to 4,000BC with the bulls eye being 6,000BC.

But, the Options used (like whether Tech Diffusion is On), Leader/Civ selected (if you use Traits or not), and Starting location/Map used all have direct effects on this range being "hit". And players like you DH that use Golden Ages a lot will see earlier dates.

JosEPh

 

[SirJohnEh]

Snail speed test at SVN 9363: completed Sedentary Lifestyle at turn 519 (7747 BC) after researching all technologies except Druidism and Shamanism; rushing directly to Sedentary at first opportunity would have reached in turn 489, 8924 BC.

Worldbuilder shows 3 AIs reached Sedentary before me. Earliest probably about turn 500 to 505 (by turn 519 it had completed 2 technologies after Sedentary).

Monarch difficulty, Perfect Mongoose standard map size with Old World start, limited to 5 civilizations. No leader traits, normal rivers (as suggested, versus my previous test set-up). Lower gold levels than previous tests. Tech diffusion on, 1 Golden Age for 35 turns starting in 15476 BC (after founding my 2nd city, and just before 3rd city).

Starting location was weak for hammer resources, slowing down builds and the science from builds (particularly Wonders). Early expansion arguably holding back my technology level at this early game stage - my capital was 4th in top cities list and 4th in science rankings, while my 2nd and 3rd city averaged 6th and 7th in global rankings (ahead of all other non-capital cites).

 

[JosEPh_II]

Thanks SirJoneEh.

Your responses got me thinking to re-looking into the number of years used for the 1st set of iTurnIncrements. I've used 44000 years for the base in all the other GS Except Snail where for some reason that escapes me I used 42,000 years. So.....I've recalculated the turn increments based on a 44,000 year span. And have now committed a revised Snail GS both Number of turns for Snail (4940) and slowed the research rate by 4.5%.

Again thanks for your invaluable responses and data.

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Yes, if you started your game before the 1st GS commit or even the 2nd you were using the Faster research rate for Snail. It's now much closer to turn 500 which should be closer to the target range of 8,000 to 4,000BC with the bulls eye being 6,000BC.

But, the Options used (like whether Tech Diffusion is On), Leader/Civ selected (if you use Traits or not), and Starting location/Map used all have direct effects on this range being "hit". And players like you DH that use Golden Ages a lot will see earlier dates.

JosEPh

Was after the first but before the second. No traits and only the one golden age.

However my main city had caves in its vicinity and so I built most of the cave wonders. Which let me build most of the other prehistoric wonders also. Not had that happen before. Perhaps we should make it so you can only have one or two cave wonders in a city.