New Hands-On Gameplay Preview (Morocco/Indonesia, Tech Tree, & more)

[Giskler]

Yup - the new music is FANTASTIC. You might hear a snippet of the new leader music, but the new main theme is quite nice as well (Edited).



Ah, but where's the fun in that?

And since a lot of you are asking, this is the exact text on the Indonesia UA:
"Spice Islanders"
"The first 3 cities founded on continents other than where Indonesia started each provide 2 unique Luxury Resources (and can never be razed)."

I goofed and said first 2 cities in the video, but it's actually 3.

So 6 unique luxuries? That's awesome!

Edit: Also, could you confirm which wonders are unlocked by each policy tree?

 

[bob massingbird]

I recognize that Borobudur was unlocked by Theology just like Hagia Sophia.

 

[PhilBowles]

Looking at the tech tree...Axeman seems to be a barbarian UU!

Sorry, but I don't understand how this conclusion can be reached from looking at the tecj tree. There's no generic tomahawk unit, but then why would you expect one? We already know it's a unique because it's Native American. It wouldn't show on the tech tree unless the screenshot is for the Native American civ. The question whether it's a barbarian UU or a civ UU that has some ability to attain barbarian colours is no closer to being resolved now than it was before.

Additionally, there's now further (very) circumstantial evidence in favour of a Native American civ:

Indonesia's inclusion supports suspicions that they're aiming to represent every continent with at least one civ in this expansion. North America is the only one not yet represented (aside, obviously, from Antarctica which has no possible civs), and the civ list we have seems to rule out Canada and Mexico. A Native American civ is therefore the only option for representing North America.

EDIT: Additionally, we know there are three 'fan civs' that don't relate specifically to the new mechanics. From what we know now, Morocco links to the new mechanics directly, and Indonesia is arguable either way (we don't yet have full information on it, but it plays with resources, giving it synergy with the trade route mechanics). So it remains possible that at least one of the unrevealed civs is a "fan civ". The Sioux are among the top 10 requested civs, and may be the only one in the top 10 not yet either ruled out or known to be included.

Rule Venice out? Venice is pretty much confirmed by being removed as a city state.

Despite issues with the possible city list, I'm inclined to agree it's likely since I can't think of a better European alternative that hasn't been ruled out, but given that you were equally adamant two days ago that this was key evidence in favour of Italy (and that you were also convinced about the absence of other Italian CSes), I'd be cautious about being quite so absolutist.

 

[Haig]

Thanks for the great informative video, your reports are the best Zac!

 

[Menzies]

Sorry, but I don't understand how this conclusion can be reached from looking at the tecj tree. There's no generic tomahawk unit, but then why would you expect one? We already know it's a unique because it's Native American. It wouldn't show on the tech tree unless the screenshot is for the Native American civ. The question whether it's a barbarian UU or a civ UU that has some ability to attain barbarian colours is no closer to being resolved now than it was before.

Additionally, there's now further (very) circumstantial evidence in favour of a Native American civ:

Indonesia's inclusion supports suspicions that they're aiming to represent every continent with at least one civ in this expansion. North America is the only one not yet represented (aside, obviously, from Antarctica which has no possible civs), and the civ list we have seems to rule out Canada and Mexico. A Native American civ is therefore the only option for representing North America.



Despite issues with the possible city list, I'm inclined to agree it's likely since I can't think of a better European alternative that hasn't been ruled out, but given that you were equally adamant two days ago that this was key evidence in favour of Italy (and that you were also convinced about the absence of other Italian CSes), I'd be cautious about being quite so absolutist.

I never said it wasn't Venice, just I didn't see them as likely as they generally go for more general civs.

That said, I also pretty much ruled out Indonesia on the basis that it would rule out Italy, how wrong I was.

That said, the revelations about the purple and cream civ having colours that seem to have been taken right off Venice's flag are rather convincing to say the least.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Frankly I still think they could have found something better than Venice.

 

[Menzies]

Frankly I still think they could have found something better than Venice.

I completely agree.

 

[PhilBowles]

I never said it wasn't Venice, just I didn't see them as likely as they generally go for more general civs.

They also generally go for civs that aren't already - at least arguably - encompassed within existing civs.

But I wasn't gloating, merely noting that interpreting particular, singular observations as evidence is not basis enough for suggesting a civ is "all but confirmed".

That said, the revelations about the purple and cream civ having colours that seem to have been taken right off Venice's flag are rather convincing to say the least.

Which Venetian flag did you have in mind? The one I'm aware of is a gold sphinx rampant on a field of red; the current coat of arms is blue and gold. A quick search for 'Venice flags' on Google doesn't reveal any with any purple or cream.

 

[Menzies]

They also generally go for civs that aren't already - at least arguably - encompassed within existing civs.

But I wasn't gloating, merely noting that interpreting particular, singular observations as evidence is not basis enough for suggesting a civ is "all but confirmed".



Which Venetian flag did you have in mind? The one I'm aware of is a gold sphinx rampant on a field of red; the current coat of arms is blue and gold. A quick search for 'Venice flags' on Google doesn't reveal any with any purple or cream.

Notice to the right hand side the purple circles and cream outlines. Those two colours are exactly the colours of the "unknown" Civilization.

It's also a lot more than one bit of evidence. The two crucial bits now though are the flag colours being exactly those of the "unknown" civilization and Riga replacing Venice.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Still a godawful flag . . .

 

[Lord Xavius]

Bucharest has not been seen, as has been said it was a false sighting which we now determined was Buenos Aires, not Bucharest

Actually, Bucharest is seen to be a city-state at 3:21, it's the source of an artifact.

 

[PhilBowles]

Notice to the right hand side the purple circles and cream outlines. Those two colours are exactly the colours of the "unknown" Civilization.

It's also a lot more than one bit of evidence. The two crucial bits now though are the flag colours being exactly those of the "unknown" civilization and Riga replacing Venice.

Okay, sure, if the colours are on the flag it works - it seems a bit of a stretch that they'd take an iconic flag and associate the civ with two colours that feature as very minor elements, however it's also an odd combination to arrive at by chance and I'm not aware of any other flag with those two colours.

 

[Tsuchinoko]

Actually, I've just tried sending a pm to zacminor to ask if he's able to give us a list of the city states present in the preview build he has (I'm pretty sure you can see all of them in the Civilopedia). If the preview builds sent to Rev3 and IGN are the same, it seems that the 6 civs present are always the same (and you have to play as Morocco), but the map itself is randomly generated (and so, I would assume, are the city states which appear) - it's not a pre-set map. Therefore, if Venice has appeared as a CS in any of the games he has played, then we'd know for sure it isn't the mystery purple civ we're all getting so worked up about. If not, it doesn't mean that a Venetian civ is an absolute certainty, but it would make it seem more likely. Presumably sharing which CSs are in the game wouldn't break any NDAs as they are generated randomly, so there would have been a chance that Venice could have spawned right next to them (Morocco) at the start, and therefore could have in the preview video anyway.

 

[PhilBowles]

So 6 unique luxuries? That's awesome!

A problem mechanically with civs like this is that they don't do anything for the AI (which gets happiness bonuses to allow maximal expansion, and no golden ages), and with unique resources thrown in it seems as though having Indonesia in your games as an AI will mostly be a way to give the player freebies (through trade or conquest). Plus, if the gold-for-resources AI hasn't been improved, as a player civ Indonesia will be horribly, horribly exploitable (as in, the Arabian bazaar will seem tame by comparison), as well as being able to get around World Congress trade embargoes with impunity (ban one of my resources? Never mind, I have 5 more).

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I think they are a total quantity of 6 of the same unique luxury resource. One for yourself and 5 for trading.

 

[Inhalaattori]

Im also pretty sure that Indonesia has only one unique luxury resource, but 2 in every 3 first cities they establish.

 

[PhilBowles]

Im also pretty sure that Indonesia has only one unique luxury resource, but 2 in every 3 first cities they establish.

I wondered about that, but it doesn't resolve the balance issues (except regarding the boycott). It makes the civ less of a happiness civ, but that's trivial. You can still exploit selling them all - and it still provides no useful value to an AI Indonesia. Also, if it were just one resource it would seem odd that it wasn't named in the UA. It seems likely that it's at least two resources, although it may be that you get the same two in each of the trade cities.

 

[Giskler]

Then the wording is a bit odd since it says "resources" - plural. Also if Indonesia is the civ with the new unique resource then we would have seen it by now since they are in the preview build. Why wouldnt they reveal it if their UA is tied to it? Furthermore the UA is "Spice Islanders" and spices are already in the game.

 

[Gucumatz]

Actually, Bucharest is seen to be a city-state at 3:21, it's the source of an artifact.

Yep this was addressed hours ago, initially the original Bucharest poster thought a Buenos Aires ally notification was Bucharest. But since then we discovered a Bucharest artifact

 

[ottobot]

so the appearance of Cahokia rules out the Mississippians as an option for the native american civ. sucks because they were my number 1 native civ. looks like the Sioux are likely to be filling that slot (alphabet theory and the fact that they are well known), although i can still hope, as i feel that they are overdone. also, there is ALMOST NO WAY that venice is not in after seeing those colors. seriously, i know some people dont want it but at this point arguing is stupid. (and yes i am aware that i am being somewhat hypocritical given my desperate clinging to somebody other than the sioux for no reason other than personal preference.)