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New Idea - Morale

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by GiuseppeIII, Aug 13, 2012.

  1. GiuseppeIII

    GiuseppeIII The Third Giuseppe

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    Morale. Every unit would have a certain amount of morale every time they lost a fight or if they were traveling long distances they would lose morale. Also depending on the current war weariness they would lose morale. To stop units from lossing morale you could make units such as a drummer boy. Not sure how this would work with c2c just an idea
     
  2. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I've been considering a mechanism for morale actually... it would fall in with other ideas for 'emotional state' promotions such as fear and anger and so on.

    I'll probably eventually work out such a system. I like the idea of units like bards and drummers and such that could come along to improve morale...

    One thought I had when I was considering this was that we should be able to select some yes/no options in an 'Edicts' popup screen before establishing this system as then we can, as players, determine a number of modifying factors. Do you kill units that flee battle or show mercy? Etc...

    Anyhow, this project is one of those I'd like to address eventually.
     
  3. rightfuture

    rightfuture Emperor

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    Love the idea, morale played a big factor in the Civil War in the U.S. :)
     
  4. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Now that would be awesome! All the culture techs could have more of a military use then too. Not just a "builders" use. Also the existing musical instruments could be required for various Moral units (ex. Drummer requires Percussion resource).
     
  5. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    They would also enable us to make more equipments to enhance them ;)


    I guess the big question here would be... could a unit be destroyed (scattered) due to failed morale? What, in other words, would be the list of potential effects of lagging morale? Obviously, they could simply lag in their fighting capabilities, or perhaps be enhanced by having ultimately great morale, but to what degree would we be willing to take this? Would we want a system where our troops start surrendering over to enemies to become slaves and captives (and whatever else DH is working out there) in droves if you can't manage your empire worth a damn (like we saw in the first Gulf War?) Would we want units to suddenly disband in the middle of a fight due to fear/lack of training/lack of morale, only to regroup a few tiles off (if you're lucky?) What would everyone WANT from a morale system?
     
  6. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    I could see the civics also playing a role in supporting more troop morale.
     
  7. GiuseppeIII

    GiuseppeIII The Third Giuseppe

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    Well we could probably make buildings in cities that could give units bigger or smaller base morale units could also gain morale faster when stationed in cities and could also maybe train... ( increased base morale) of course depending what buildings were in the city. You could also probably implement a whole new line of promotions. Finally units could possibly move slower if there morale decreases and maybe they would get more damage in terrain that gives damage
     
  8. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Or even add additional stats to existing buildings such as "Parade Grounds".
     
  9. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I was looking through the properties system thread and noticed he'd intended it for use with units as well... perhaps various 'Emotional States Properties' would be the best way to implement such a system. You could have a number of various types of emotions and stimulus to create those emotions in units and then have 'Emotional Promotions' emerge and disappear based on the levels of those states as buildings do with crime. A few added tags for promotions, some promotion design and Properties design, and we have a system. However, the more complex side of it would be how to define and program the stimulus conditions for altering unit emotional states.
     
  10. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    That would be cool if there were temp promotions like that. Perhaps in other instances such as if your winning or loosing a battle. Thus if you loose too many you will become demoralized or if you keep winning your army gains some momentum.
     
  11. civfan613

    civfan613 Warlord

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    Well, if you want MY opinion...
    I'd really LOVE something more of the HOMM way:
    Hit points, Min-Max Damage, maybe even Attack/Defense modifiers, obviously Movement, Morale as in a chance of not-spending a single movement or attack, Luck as in chance to inflict double Damage, Effects as in lose/gain movement/damage/HP/morale/luck as an outcome of a battle.
    Sure, this will require a lot of work on the engine.
    BUT!
    This would make battles MUCH more interesting AND worth striving for upgrading units (not just for a dull +10% Strength).
    ALSO, I've seen a mod (Fall from Heaven or whatever the name) that actually implements Items for units and some "magic" which also works on a different engine from vanilla.
    All-in-all, you could do SO MUCH to improve the unit system with actual CHANGES, not just Strength/Movement boosts.
     
  12. GiuseppeIII

    GiuseppeIII The Third Giuseppe

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    Well in c2c you can give your units some items like bamboo armor
     
  13. civfan613

    civfan613 Warlord

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    Huh?
    It seemed still like just an promotion.
    Anyways, I've mentioned some much more drastic changes that could be implemented, some day, the next millennium...
    Oh, well... I can dream about it anyways...
     
  14. GiuseppeIII

    GiuseppeIII The Third Giuseppe

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    So far the only morale+ units I can think of are drummer boys, bards, and buglars. Can anyone think of any other morale+ units
     
  15. chueche

    chueche Chieftain

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    I have read from long time, that by war between German barbarian and Romans soldier, the german woman stay naked near frontier of battlefield. They mean with that when you will loose the enemy take your wife. It was like antic Cheerleaders:clap:
    And next update will be unit inside "The naked German wife":goodjob:
     
  16. IronClaymore

    IronClaymore Warlord

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    Yep. Those options you just mentioned would be fine in any pre-20th century type army, but are obsolete nowadays. What the Iraq+Afghanistan wars are showing us and what was definitely apparent after WW1 and Vietnam are the effects of post traumatic stress. So, some sort of psychiatrist "equipment" promotion? Like, a unit enters a city with a psychiatrist office building, and can "purchase" the promotion like in FFH modmods, for a gold cost. Another problem with PTSD is that it causes veterans to leave the military, rather than staying on (even if staying on means promotion, a comfy desk job, or training the next generation of soldiers). Perhaps if a unit's morale is low and stays low for a long period of time, it begins to even lose experience points to represent this? Now THAT would make morale something to worry about.

    Similarly you could perhaps have commissars (like the soviet WW2 version), propaganda guys, prostitutes (how many armies in history have been without prostitutes in their supply carriage?), chaplains, maybe even drug dealers. The drummers and bards etc, at the mass media tech, would be replaced by...whatever it is when modern soldiers are entertained by musicians. USO shows?

    A unit would need to visit a city with buildings such as churches of the state (commissars), press agencies (propaganda), brothels (prostitutes), cathedrals (chaplains), drug lord's mansion (drug dealers) to be able to buy these promotions.

    Even though these promotions will increase morale, they should have mild negative effects as well. Prostitutes for instance would decrease a unit's strength and healrate (syphilis), commissars would gut any withdrawal chance the unit had, psychiatrists need to be paid and would increase a unit's maintenance cost, etc. They could also be linked to the crime system. Low morale units causing crime (discharged veterans with mental/physical health problems turning to crime), and some promotions like prostitutes increasing the unit's crime value. Hell, you could even get military police promotions, which decrease the crime values but also damage morale.

    Finally, some units would lack morale altogether. Clockwork golems and other robot and nanite units. They wouldn't have to worry about losing morale, but on the other hand would never benefit from positive effects (perhaps high morale could give units extra strength and city attack/defense, or even decrease a city's revindex as they do good works in the community and help with natural disasters).

    For a unit's starting morale:
    Volunteer army, standing army = good
    Conscription, MAD, banditry = bad

    Other civics like fascism or intolerant, which include heavy childhood indoctrination and lots of psychological conditioning for soldiers, would have an effect. Same with good ones like liberal or secular. Instead of causing a net increase/decrease in morale or a unit's starting morale, they could affect how easy it is to modify a unit's morale. For example, under fascism units would lose morale much more slowly, but also have trouble gaining it, while under liberal it could be a fragile thing, easy to gain or to lose.
     
  17. GiuseppeIII

    GiuseppeIII The Third Giuseppe

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    To continue on with your civic integrating with moral how about to balance slavery all slave units have really low moral seeing as their as their are being forced to do what every you assigned them to do against their will. Their moral would the slowly grow over time
     
  18. IronClaymore

    IronClaymore Warlord

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    I had an idea about slavery as well. Though horribly evil, using slavery should give a bonus to how much morale your regular units gain when they win a victory. Aztecs are the cliched example of course, but many ancient societies fought wars to acquire slaves, and to get your warriors to actually risk their lives in these wars they have to be able to take slaves for themselves too. So, you fight a battle and win, maybe you get a slave unit maybe you don't, but whatever prisoners of war there are become the property of your own soldiers, making them happy. Plus, wealthier warriors bring their household slaves along with them on campaign, to cook and clean for the warrior and look after his equipment.

    Razing a city while under the slavery civic should give a massive morale boost to the razing unit. "Spoils of war" and all that nonsense, with human rights abuses heavily implied.
     
  19. GiuseppeIII

    GiuseppeIII The Third Giuseppe

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    But wouldn't just be making slavery even better. Slavery is already way to good as a civic it doesn't need to be made any better
     
  20. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    The Story Teller line of units, after all celebrities go entertain the troops don't they.

    You may be a bit behind on the value of Slavery civic.
     

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