New IGN info on Warlords

Logically when you create GW, then it surrounds your borders... it will not then city based... when the city would be razed, the GW will stay or not? Anyway... it seems capturing GW gives you nothing.
 
now that we finally have some good idea of how this is going to work, i find the expansion pack very promising.
I'm usually not a big fan of scenarios but those seem so very different from the vanilla that it's almost another game!
guess now we'll just have to wait...
 
Desert-Fox said:
Logically when you create GW, then it surrounds your borders... it will not then city based... when the city would be razed, the GW will stay or not? Anyway... it seems capturing GW gives you nothing.
Click to expand...

it seems capturing cities inside GW will protect them from barb attacks, from what i read.

GW probably obsoletes with gunpowder (like) tech, just like walls
 
cabert said:
it seems capturing cities inside GW will protect them from barb attacks, from what i read.

GW probably obsoletes with gunpowder (like) tech, just like walls
Click to expand...

I wouldn't care because the critters will not annoy me when I've gunpowder... :)
 
Given that we are still three months away from the games release, I wouldn't be suprised if we see some of these traits alter in some way-namely I would place a strong bet on them toning down the Charismatic Trait if it becomes clear that its overpowered. As good as it is to have all of this E3 info, I firmly believed that there are things mentioned here which might change between now and release.
Still, Vassal states sounds brilliant, and hopefully will please all of those warmongers who complain about the 'inability' to win domination games ;).

Oh, lastly, all those bothered by cultural borders overtaking the Great Wall. NikG (one of our modders), is developing a mod which makes culture harder to overtake certain 'natural boundries'-and I wouldn't be suprised if the GW will be added to this. (O/T I know, but felt I had to say it!)

Aussie_Lurker.
 
On the GW -
It's wa-ay onside China's cultural borders NOW, but was frontline when it was actually built.

It must also give some culture even after it's no longer good for it's original purpose, like other WoW.

Vassal States - Oh boy!
 
Oh, another point. I was really hoping for the addition of a new specialist in this expansion-related to the addition of the Great General.
Namely, I was hoping for a soldier specialist who can reduce the time it takes to build units and who could also generate points towards getting a great General.
I wonder if they can implement this before the release date? It would just be nice to have a 'non-violent' means to get a Great General.

Aussie_Lurker.
 
I think the Protective trait seems just a little underpowerd; maybe they should get drill 1 and city garrison 1?

As far as Great Wall: will it have any affect on AI do you think? Or just barbs? I wouldn't build something just for barbs unless playing on Monarch or higher...
 
If you play it with raging critters then it would be awesome :)
 
Havin g to renegotiate Vassal State status every 10 turns is going to be an enormous drag. Imagine if you're playing with all civs, and you conquer five- that's one negotiation every 2 turns, argh!

Gerat Wall sounds neat, but useless, unless it also provides a defensive bonus or perhaps some kind of movement penalty against non-barbarian units too. By the time it's built, your borders are going to be almost all pushed up against your neighbours, with little prospect of Barbarians moving against them.
 
cuchulain said:
I think the Protective trait seems just a little underpowerd; maybe they should get drill 1 and city garrison 1?
Click to expand...

Sorry man, but I am going to have to disagree with you on this point. I might ee go so far as to say it is borderline OVERpowered. Let's just take a look here:
Archer:
Str 3
1 first strike
+50% city defense
+25% hills defense

Protective Archer:
Str 3
3 first strike
+50% city defense
+25% hills defense

Put this guy in a city built on hill. Eff. Str = 6 w/ 3 first strikes. Axemen wont touch him. Swordsmen will have a lot of trouble. Put two of these and a Medic unit, and sacrifices will HAVE to be made to take this city.

Add a City Garrison I (which almost all of them should have. Build in a city w/ a RAX and you've got it.) and you are talking about a Eff. Str of 6.6 w/ 3 FS. Swordsmen will get mowed down.

Add Drill III, Archer now has 5 FS. Even swordsmen wont touch him. Even catapults will have trouble with this guy, meaning less collateral damage. 5 FS might take out a lot of units anyway, meaning the archer goes untouched.

Or how about a 10 xp Archer: Promotions: Drill I (free), Drill 2 (free), CG1, CG2, CG3. Eff Str: 8.25 w/ 3 FS w/ additional .3 vs Melee.

Or how about this 10 xp Archer: Promotions: Drill I (free), Drill 2 (free), Drill 3, CG1, CG2. Eff Str: 7.35 w/ 5 FS.

Or how about this 10 xp Archer: Promotions: Drill I (free), Drill 2 (free), Drill 3, Drill 4, CG1. Eff Str: 6.6 w/ 7 FS. Catapult might not even get into the city to do collateral damage.

Now add in Cheap walls, and these guys might have to be air bombed out.

And we haven't even started talking about Logbowmen yet. When they first appear, it gets VERY difficult to take a city. Add 2 FS to them and life just got very difficult. Add 2 more with Drill III and catapults might not even get in to do collateral damage. Add Drill IV and you now have 7 FS on a 6xp Lowbowman. Cheap walls and 25% natural city defense and you are looking at Eff Str of 9 w/ 7FS. And that isn't even on a hill. On a hill you add 3 more Eff Str. VERY tough. Even Macemen will have a hard time hitting him. You might have to wait for knights, and even then, w/ Drill IV, they will get +10%.

If for some reason one of the new leaders is Agg/Prot, you might have to be 2 tech levels ahead to beat this guy. :)
 
Of course, Chariots and Horse Archers ignore first strikes, which might lead to players using those units more. Personally, I would love to play as Protective since I love First Strikes (The Samurai are my favorite unit).
 
A expansive/charimatic can be also interesting as combination you would get +3 health and +2 happiness in all cities; not so bad.
 
Oda Nobunaga said:
One thing to keep in mind is, older leaders may change traits too. If Shaka becomes Agg/Exp, I wouldn't be surprised to see Genghis Khan switch over to either Agg/Imp or Imp/Exp.
Click to expand...

Wow, good point. It's funny but the Imperialistic trait is kinda like a bit of both the aggressive and expansive traits combined. IMO it's more aggressive than the aggressive trait and more expansive than the expansive trait :)

I wonder if they are going to rebalance the other traits also in order to keep them all distinct.

scottin said:
And we haven't even started talking about Logbowmen yet. When they first appear, it gets VERY difficult to take a city. Add 2 FS to them and life just got very difficult. Add 2 more with Drill III and catapults might not even get in to do collateral damage. Add Drill IV and you now have 7 FS on a 6xp Lowbowman. Cheap walls and 25% natural city defense and you are looking at Eff Str of 9 w/ 7FS. And that isn't even on a hill. On a hill you add 3 more Eff Str. VERY tough. Even Macemen will have a hard time hitting him. You might have to wait for knights, and even then, w/ Drill IV, they will get +10%.
Click to expand...

First of all,

Drill I gives 1 first strike chance - not a first strike.
Drill II gives 1 first strike.
Drill III gives 2 first strike chances.
Drill IV gives 2 first strikes.

So with the Protective trait, an archer will have 2-3 first strikes, not 3 first strikes. If the archer has Drill I (free), Drill II (free), Drill III and Drill IV it will then get 4-7 first strikes - that's 4 first strikes and 3 first strike chances, not 7 first strikes.

Another thing, catapults (and the other seige units) do collateral damage before the combat starts. No matter how many first strikes you have you cannot stop it doing the collateral damage.

The ultimate effect of the first strike property is that the more first strikes you have, the greater the chances are of you dealing damage on the first strike or two - hence the term 'first strike'. Nothing more. On a good roll, the first strikes may win several times in a row (thus winning the initial few rounds), but they can all also fail on a bad roll as well (and thus do nothing). Normally though, against an equal strengthed unit, it will win 50% of the first strike rounds and deal damage and theoretically loose the others. Basically, the more first strikes, the more chance of getting the first strike at the begining of the combat. If you have a significantly higher strength that your opponent, then the effects of the first strikes will be that of doing damage while receiving little in return.

Watiggi
 
i hope all of the leaders have a unique pair of traits after the xpac. having two leaders that both have agg/exp would suck :(
 
I just have to say that the way the GW functions and the introduction of Vassal States both got me very excited about Warlords. :thumbsup:
 
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