1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

New Leader Traits!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Mod Components' started by SoCalian, Nov 21, 2005.

  1. Lightzy

    Lightzy Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    274
    Location:
    Israel
    Note that the new traits can be unbalanced even if not combined. its not easy :)
    and also, its important to make sure the AI can figure out and use the changes, rather than just pampering to the player.
    After all, the AI is what makes this game
     
  2. Martinus

    Martinus Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2001
    Messages:
    1,852
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Warsaw, Poland
    Yeah, I am just mostly speculating there, since I am not too fond of adding new traits, since I consider the current ones to be fairly well balanced.

    However, just in itself, a Seafaring trait giving +1 to ship movement and cheaper harbours and lighthouses would not need to be learned by the AI, as it is pretty much a straightforward bonus, that does not require any special strategy to employ. :)

    On a related note, I wonder how the AI evaluates units - does it have hardcoded that knight is better than horse archer, or does it actually look at unit values and bonuses, and evaluates them? This could have a tremendous influence on how the AI would handle new units, for example, or unit stat modifications.
     
  3. V. Soma

    V. Soma long time civ fan

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,878
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hungary
    Aggressive trait, as officially now, gives Combat 1 to new units from the start, already :)
     
  4. woodelf

    woodelf Bard

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Messages:
    15,036
    Location:
    Gallery
    To further individualize the leaders would it be possible to make partial traits? I'm thinking that instead of Financial it could be Financial I and II with 1 being 1/2 the value of 2. You could also then do a point system for each leader where 2 normal unmodified traits = 4 points, but 1 normal and 2 "half" traits also = 4 points. Bear with me, I'm at work with no Civ4 stuff in front of me, but you could turn from the Celtic mod Vercingetorix - Organized and Financial into Organized I, Financial II, Seafaring I? This would open up a ton of really unique leaders.
     
  5. Vehem

    Vehem Modmod Monkey

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    3,219
    Nice mod - had been working on a similar theory myself. I wanted to differentiate Churchill for a mod I'm toying with, and took inspiration from his "We will defend our island" speech. From that, I decided that a "Stalwart" trait would be appropriate and a simple implementation would be to grant City Garrison I to some units (even if he never had to defend a British city directly - he did fight in the trenches in WWI and did want to take part personally in the D-Day landings, stopped only by the King).

    Balancewise, this is similar to the Aggressive ability that grants Combat I - the only issue I can see is whether to include UNITCOMBAT_MELEE in the types to gain the promotion, as they can't normally get it.

    I'll post the XML below for the trait below as public domain - you can do with it as you see fit.
    Code:
    	<TraitInfo>
    			<Type>TRAIT_STALWART</Type>
    			<Description>Stalwart</Description>
    			<ShortDescription>Stalwart</ShortDescription>
    			<iHealth>0</iHealth>
    			<iMaxAnarchy>-1</iMaxAnarchy>
    			<iUpkeepModifier>0</iUpkeepModifier>
    			<iGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iGreatPeopleRateModifier>
    			<iMaxGlobalBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxGlobalBuildingProductionModifier>
    			<iMaxTeamBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxTeamBuildingProductionModifier>
    			<iMaxPlayerBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxPlayerBuildingProductionModifier>
    			<ExtraYieldThresholds/>
    			<TradeYieldModifiers/>
    			<CommerceChanges/>
    			<CommerceModifiers/>
    			<FreePromotions>
    				<FreePromotion>
    					<PromotionType>PROMOTION_CITY_GARRISON1</PromotionType>
    					<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
    				</FreePromotion>
    			</FreePromotions>
    			<FreePromotionUnitCombats>
    				<FreePromotionUnitCombat>
    					<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_MELEE</UnitCombatType>
    					<bFreePromotionUnitCombat>1</bFreePromotionUnitCombat>
    				</FreePromotionUnitCombat>
    				<FreePromotionUnitCombat>
    					<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_GUN</UnitCombatType>
    					<bFreePromotionUnitCombat>1</bFreePromotionUnitCombat>
    				</FreePromotionUnitCombat>
    				<FreePromotionUnitCombat>
    					<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_ARCHER</UnitCombatType>
    					<bFreePromotionUnitCombat>1</bFreePromotionUnitCombat>
    				</FreePromotionUnitCombat>
    			</FreePromotionUnitCombats>
    	</TraitInfo>
    
     
  6. woodelf

    woodelf Bard

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Messages:
    15,036
    Location:
    Gallery
    The Stalwart idea made me refine my earlier idea. What if there were minor and major traits? Each Leader could have either 2 major, 1 major and 2 minor, or 4 minor traits. Personally I would consider Stalwart a minor which would allow Churchill to still have 2 (or 3) other traits along side Stawart. It might help balance things out.

    I might dig into this if no one else thinks it's a good idea.
     
  7. woodelf

    woodelf Bard

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Messages:
    15,036
    Location:
    Gallery
    And any idea where in the TraitInfo the 1/2 cost for specific buildings is located? Or is that an entirely different file, maybe the buildingInfo file?
     
  8. Zurai

    Zurai King

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    726
    There is, actually. Take a gander in the Continents (I believe) map script; it forces civs to start coastal if enough coastal spots are available. All you'd have to do is modify the other map scripts to check for the leader traits and select a coastal spot for the seafaring civs.

    You'd have to change every script this way and it would only work for this mod (the game would probably crash or give a cascading python error if this mod wasn't installed but the scripts were changed), but it would work.
     
  9. Zurai

    Zurai King

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    726

    It isn't hardcoded. I accidentally left one of my Hero units (a high level one too, so very strong) buildable at one point and immediately noticed it when I started a new game ;) The AI had hordes of them.

    The AI looks at strength, movement, and cost (and probably some algorithm for the special abilities too) when determining what to build. There's nothing hardcoded about it that I can find.
     
  10. woodelf

    woodelf Bard

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Messages:
    15,036
    Location:
    Gallery
    Here's a very, very rough draft of what I was proposing. Once I get home I'll try it out. I can't find the building info here at work, but it would be easy to implement I think with the minor trait getting only a 1/4 discount on a building where the major gets the 1/2 discount.

    <TraitInfo>
    <Type>TRAIT_PHILOSOPHICAL_I</Type>
    <Description>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_PHILOSOPHICAL</Description>
    <ShortDescription>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_PHILOSOPHICAL_SHORT</ShortDescription>
    <iHealth>0</iHealth>
    <iMaxAnarchy>-1</iMaxAnarchy>
    <iUpkeepModifier>0</iUpkeepModifier>
    <iGreatPeopleRateModifier>50</iGreatPeopleRateModifier>
    <iMaxGlobalBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxGlobalBuildingProductionModifier>
    <iMaxTeamBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxTeamBuildingProductionModifier>
    <iMaxPlayerBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxPlayerBuildingProductionModifier>
    <ExtraYieldThresholds/>
    <TradeYieldModifiers/>
    <CommerceChanges/>
    <CommerceModifiers/>
    <FreePromotions/>
    <FreePromotionUnitCombats/>
    </TraitInfo>
    <TraitInfo>
    <Type>TRAIT_PHILOSOPHICAL_II</Type>
    <Description>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_PHILOSOPHICAL</Description>
    <ShortDescription>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_PHILOSOPHICAL_SHORT</ShortDescription>
    <iHealth>0</iHealth>
    <iMaxAnarchy>-1</iMaxAnarchy>
    <iUpkeepModifier>0</iUpkeepModifier>
    <iGreatPeopleRateModifier>100</iGreatPeopleRateModifier>
    <iMaxGlobalBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxGlobalBuildingProductionModifier>
    <iMaxTeamBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxTeamBuildingProductionModifier>
    <iMaxPlayerBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxPlayerBuildingProductionModifier>
    <ExtraYieldThresholds/>
    <TradeYieldModifiers/>
    <CommerceChanges/>
    <CommerceModifiers/>
    <FreePromotions/>
    <FreePromotionUnitCombats/>
    </TraitInfo>
     
  11. JDexter

    JDexter Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2003
    Messages:
    565
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    How is it of questionable value if you can move 3 instead of 2 plots, without spending 3 promotions on it?? When I read the proposal for this I even thought it might be too powerfull. Combine this with the Blitz promotion and adios everyone else. ;)

    Better defense means you need less units defending. So you can concentrate on anything else, improving cities, building offensive units, etc. Lot of value right there as well.

    In general a great mod idea, as I'm not entirely happy with the current traits.
     
  12. SoCalian

    SoCalian Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,901
    I really like that Idea.
     
  13. Tabris

    Tabris Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Messages:
    100
    Turnin crazy, why not a trait for every leader representating it's form of government?
     
  14. didaskalia7

    didaskalia7 Nightmare Proportions

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    In a van down by the river
    This is Great, I'm going to look at this and try to enter it into the
    "SuperCiv" mod for the seafarers there. Vikings would be another good
    mod to add it to. :goodjob:
     
  15. dazman92

    dazman92 Gabba Gabba Hey!

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Messages:
    147
    Location:
    Staten Island, NY
    why not militaristic: War weariness -50&#37;, units produced 25% quicker? good for Stalin or Bismarck.
     
  16. Kael

    Kael Deity

    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Messages:
    17,401
    Location:
    Ohio
    Thread Necromancy is evil.
     
  17. Impaler[WrG]

    Impaler[WrG] Civ4:Col UI programmer

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,750
    Location:
    Vallejo, California
    Also the effects your proposing don't exist on Traits by default, fortunately I did add both of those as possible tags in my CCCP mod so you can use it to get the effects your looking for but you have to write the XML yourself.
     
  18. Infantry#14

    Infantry#14 Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,580
    i got a new idea, how about strategic:
    1) double great general points (40 exp instead of 20) and free leadership promotion, or 4 exp to city (instead of 2) if becomes military advisor in city
    2) -50&#37; unit supply and military cost

    Probabaly give it to Caesar, Qin Shi Huang, and Cyrus
     
  19. OzzyKP

    OzzyKP Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2000
    Messages:
    1,692
    Location:
    Washington, DC USA
    What an interesting idea... :mischief:
     
  20. Ekmek

    Ekmek on steam: ekmek_e

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2002
    Messages:
    6,051
    Location:
    San Diego, California

Share This Page