1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

New Leaders Spreadsheet

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Barathor, Jun 20, 2012.

  1. glider1

    glider1 Deity

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    2,788
    Location:
    Where animals hop not run
    Thanks JP for this!
    Cheers
     
  2. Keejus

    Keejus Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    311
    Location:
    Denmark
    When you start a game, each score for each leader is modified by a random value from -2 to 2. For example, Gustavus Adolphus has a Friendly bias of 6 and a Deceptive bias of 3, but this could mean that he turns out to be Friendly 4 and Deceptive 5 in one game, and Friendly 8 and Deceptive 1 in another, to add a bit of unpredictability.

    What this means for Gandhi is that his lowest possible Nuke bias is 10. If it's more than 10, I think the game rounds it down to 10, anyways, so it's the only truly immutable score.
     
  3. Seek

    Seek Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Messages:
    3,410
    But please note, this AFAIK is only rumor/speculation and has not been proven anywhere that I've seen. There's also speculation that any value over 10 gets discounted and is essentially 0 (thereby giving Gandhi an extremely unpredictable nuke bias) - again, though, I haven't seen proof.
     
  4. blackcatatonic

    blackcatatonic Queen of Meme

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    3,290
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    UK
    My state of puzzlement was more brought on by the practical concern of his UA being entirely about maintaining friendly relationships with other Civs rather than him as a historical character, which, let's face it, isn't always prioritised by the developers. Besides which, there's a difference between being a great tactician and being as bloodthirsty as high war-flavour AIs have a habit of being. But I will freely admit I know nothing about him whatsoever.

    Having seen him in one game now, he definitely seems to be about as aggressive as Monty on an average day. It didn't do him much good though :lol:
     
  5. WeneedmoreCivs

    WeneedmoreCivs Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    125
    Really? You're far too cool for school...
    This is an awesome list. I used your amazing list to make my own list:
    The first number is "Conquest style"...essentially a rating showing who is best for conquest games. The second number is "Dan Style", or the style which best caters to my style of play, which is usually tailored towards peaceful growth and expansion until my science is way better than everyone else so I can conquer the world without many casualities.
    47 47 ALEX
    52 50 ASKIA
    52 45 ATTILA
    44 47 AUGUST
    50 47 BISMRK
    46 50 BOUDI
    44 53 CATHY
    40 51 DARIUS
    52 45 DIDO
    53 53 ELIZ
    37 56 GANDHI
    55 44 GENG
    47 50 GUSTAV
    53 46 HARALD
    43 56 HARUN
    38 53 HIAWA
    52 48 ISABEL
    50 44 KAMEH
    42 53 MARIA
    44 48 MONTY
    49 46 NAPOLE
    48 54 NEBU
    53 46 ODA
    42 54 PACAL
    47 52 PACHA
    41 57 RAMESS
    39 50 RAMKM
    48 54 SEJONG
    39 51 SELASS
    57 46 SULEI
    44 54 THEO
    51 48 WASH
    48 46 WILL
    44 56 WU

    So based on the average rating and standard deviation, the following 10 are my top 10 civs to use...the funny thing is that I basically have only used Sejong more than once. It seems as though Elizabeth is the best one for me!
    ELIZ
    SULEI
    ASKIA
    NEBU
    SEJONG
    ISABEL
    WU
    WASH
    PACHA
    HARALD
     
  6. Halcyan2

    Halcyan2 Emperor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,380
    Hi. I love the new spreadsheet.

    I wanted to doublecheck one of the values though. Attila is listed with a Wonder Trait of "5". Is that right? (One would think that he would be a 3, along with Genghis and other warmongers).

    In addition, the "5" is highlighted green when only 3's and 4's in the column are highlighted (there are other 5's in that row but none of those are highlighted) which makes me suspect he is really a 3 or 4.

    Thanks for checking.
     
  7. glider1

    glider1 Deity

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    2,788
    Location:
    Where animals hop not run
    Yeah I agree I refer to it all the time. Here is the path to Attila's XML and yes the spreadsheet is correct. It's not a trait but a "flavor". A flavor is a term used to indicate the AI build priorities.

    Code:
    <Row> <LeaderType>LEADER_ATTILA</LeaderType> <FlavorType>FLAVOR_WONDER</FlavorType> <Flavor>5</Flavor> </Row>
    
    C:\Program Files\Steam\SteamApps\common\sid meier's civilization v\assets\DLC\Expansion\Gameplay\XML\Leaders

    Cheers
     
  8. Halcyan2

    Halcyan2 Emperor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,380
    Thanks for the confirmation. I'm a bit surprised by it. In any case, the next version of the spreadsheet should probably remove the green coloring for that value (Attila's wonder flavor)..
     
  9. Colonel Travis

    Colonel Travis Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2012
    Messages:
    36
    Love this but since I'm new to this place, how were the numbers determined?
     
  10. glider1

    glider1 Deity

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    2,788
    Location:
    Where animals hop not run
    The game itself is built upon variables that are stored in XML that you can read with notepad if you know where to find it. The original numbers were determined by experimentation as the developers developed the game. It is possible to change the XML but is normally best done in a "mod" instead of fiddling with the base game itself.

    Cheers
     
  11. Colonel Travis

    Colonel Travis Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2012
    Messages:
    36
    Understood - thanks glider.
     
  12. bcaiko

    bcaiko Emperor

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,412
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    This is very awesome. Thanks!
     
  13. Dulahey

    Dulahey Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    19
    I would recommend freeze framing.

    (For Excel 2010)
    Click on cell D4, then at the top go to the View tab and click Freeze Panes. A drop down menu will appear; click on Freeze Panes again. Now you can move around on the spreadsheet while always being able to see the Civ's at the top and the subject matter on the left.
     
  14. zan_laurin

    zan_laurin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    I made this "one glance" chart back in October 2011, your post reminded me that I should update it for the expansion .
    It's up to date with the latest patch, works with excel 2010 only at the moment, sorry.



    There's a version for Libre office, Excel 2007 and Excel 2003. will update those as well as soon as I have some time :)

    Meanwhile I'm making this public in case it's useful to anyone.

    Download from Mediafire
    Download from CivFanatics - Soon
     
  15. Barathor

    Barathor Emperor

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,202
    Halcyan, thanks. I've fixed that and it will be displayed correctly once a new patch comes out and I reupload the file.

    Dulahey, that's awesome, thanks! I love learning new tricks (especially when they're that easy). Perhaps, I'll remove the extra cells (like the 2nd row of icons at the bottom) and I'll make a note of this viewing technique.

    zan, nicely done!

    ---------

    Also, I wasn't aware of any type of rounding-down to 10, and that it's a max. First time I've heard that.

    There's actually a value in GlobalAIDefines which says the max is 20. (Though, this doesn't necessarily disprove the above.)

    PERSONALITY_FLAVOR_MAX_VALUE = 20

    Also, if you want to decrease or increase the randomization there's this one too:

    FLAVOR_RANDOMIZATION_RANGE = 2

    :goodjob:
     
  16. Colonel Travis

    Colonel Travis Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2012
    Messages:
    36
    Both these are very helpful - thanks.

    Why did they make Gandhi off-the-charts for nukes? Indira Gandhi cranked up their nuclear program, not Mohandas, but they aren't close (presumably) to the production of the Non-Proliferation countries, or even countries with power plants. In the game I've always wiped out India so I've never seen them get to that point, but even if it's to balance out their relative passiveness, I still think it's overboard. Has anyone here ever suffered from their wrath? Do they actually become warmongers at the very end?
     
  17. glider1

    glider1 Deity

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    2,788
    Location:
    Where animals hop not run
    Yes Ghandi is a late game nuker. The idea is that you need civs to stir up the pot lest the game becomes stale. Remember that unfortunately the game confuses the two "Ghandi's" that led India in the real world.

    That said, thanks to this wonderful resource, I am experimenting with an alternative idea to "stirring up the pot". It turns out, that if you set every single value in the table mid-range so that there is no variation between leaders at all except for trait and geographical location, you counter intuitively still get a varied game but without the predictability of the leaders behaving in the same way.....The fact that the traits don't match the personality any more is actually not a serious drawback in practice. The AI's become more "adaptable" and "flexible".

    By setting the leaders values all the same, it both gives a "random personality option" feel to the game, but also allows you to "tweak" those aspects of personality that the AI is most competent at....Of course, this idea is not applicable to the base game, because most people want their leaders to have individualized personalities for the sake of role playing and an attempt to "tune" the leader to trait.

    Cheers
     
  18. Yzman

    Yzman Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Messages:
    2,692
    Location:
    Illinois, USA
    Very nice work.
     
  19. Ribusprissin

    Ribusprissin Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    114
    It was in some other threads, but basically Gandhi was originally programmed with a twelve instead of two as a typo in Civ 1, and he has remained such as an easter egg.
     
  20. headcase

    headcase Limit 1 Facepalm Per Turn

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,213
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    :agree:

    Really? I thought they were all totally random (just that people remembered Gandhi the most because of how out-of-character it is). Either way, basically the same result; it became a meme and Firaxis is sticking with it.
     

Share This Page