New Mesoamerica Mod Teaser

[Takhisis]

Speaking of scenarios I know I'll never make, @Virote_Considon:

Hey, Oz, since this thread never really dies I thought I'd make a suggestion: what if the Aztecs had, instead of dedicating themselves to procuring blood sacrifices because otherwise the sun would never come up, dedicated themselves to better things, like seriously conquering everyone around them?
What if they'd managed to reject the Spanish and managed to hold on to their Empire? Maybe a lucky sling-shot or javelin could've killed Cortés and the Spanish could have been forced to teach metallurgy and gunpowder-making to the Aztecs.

It would be the contemporary equivalent of the Japanese learning from the Portuguese new technologies (how to make plate armour and matchlock firearms) and tactics (co-ordinated shock cavalry attacks, mass spear formations, massed arquebus fire). And nearly conquering Korea with it.

This could be a fourth era, the fantasy part, or a sequel in its own right. Of course, one day Covid-19 will end and we will have to go to work and such things again.

@Takhisis Tlaxcallan is the original Nahuatl referring to the confederation of Tizatlan, Ocotelulco, Tepeticpac, and Quiahuiztlan. I'm aware the name of the modern state (been there too) and Spanish documents call it Tlaxcala, I speak Spanish, thank you

tla- "the obvious thing", well not precisely but it's one way to put it succinctly.
-xca- the root, is to flatten.
tlaxcalli = tortilla, the obvious thing that is flattened.
-(t)lan is land of, land abundant in. Tlaxcallan is "land of tortillas". There are some scholars however who think it may have actually been called Texcallan (something like "land of (many) lords", which would be kind of fitting for the senate) and the Spanish are just that inept at transliteration. I prefer Tlaxcallan though.

EDIT: I've played a few hours more as the Moches, made it to the Classic Period, and got to use magic for the first time as El Tajin was built on a mountain and was being a pain to take. Aside from that I noticed quite a few other things I like: even in the equivalent of the middle ages I was dealing with barbarians on occasion (though they have non-Americas names hehe) since their hideouts are in terrain that I can't pass through. So while fighting the Classic Veracruz I kept having to watch out on the opposite flank and more than a few times they got through and sniped a worker or something. It's very thematic, feels very Precolumbian hehe.

The urban planning system is pretty neat in theory but I haven't gotten to play around with it much. Plazas don't feel all that useful to make, but then again I wasn't making any of the "pollution" buildings as, as far as I could tell, most of them increased shield output and I was doing okay on shields. Maybe costs of units could be increased slightly or something, to encourage grabbing those? Or a couple other buildings could do with a bit of pollution. Iunno, guess it's a delicate balancing act.

Hey, besides being a teacher and interpreter of English, Spanish and a few other languages (sadly unemployed due to how hard this Covid and the quarantine are hitting this place) I also do know of the classification of nahuatl languages according to how they realise the t and tl phonemes. Now that I understand that it's not a typo, yes I do know what you're talking about. I would have gotten it the first time if it'd been Tlaxcatlan, though.

 

[Mopean]

The Aztecs did conquer stuff. They expanded for the same reasons every other empire expands.
Oh they did have metallurgy btw. Unless you specifically mean ferrous metallurgy, but they in fact taught the Spanish a thing or two about metalworking.

Hey, besides being a teacher and interpreter of English, Spanish and a few other languages (sadly unemployed due to how hard this Covid and the quarantine are hitting this place) I also do know of the classification of nahuatl languages according to how they realise the t and tl phonemes. Now that I understand that it's not a typo, yes I do know what you're talking about. I would have gotten it the first time if it'd been Tlaxcatlan, though.

Ah, I see. No problem, although I don't think I've *ever* seen "Tlaxcatlan" and, uh, well I've already shown how much of this stuff I've read. There's like a few hundred Mesoamericanist scholars and I just happen to be one of two I know that plays civ3. Speaking of which I meant to record a session with the mod at some point...

 

[Virote_Considon]

Plenty of interesting discussion, guys!

By the way, speaking of Tlaxcallan, I've noticed their senatorial republic doesn't appear to be represented as a government form. Were there any plans to that effect?

Perhaps as a government-dependant Small Wonder or something,?

Speaking of scenarios I know I'll never make, @Virote_Considon:

This could be a fourth era, the fantasy part, or a sequel in its own right.

The fourth is gonna kinda be like this, revolving around:
1. Joining the Spanish Empire, submitting to Europeanization and Christianity (and the socio-political and military benefits that they bring), but having to lose your ways - the historic path
2. Learning and utilising new advancements which don't require your own submission - the middle, or neutral, path
3. Resisting colonisation, preserving your peoples' identity, and such - the path which veers further into "what-if"

Of course, one day Covid-19 will end and we will have to go to work and such things again.

(Un)fortunately, I never stopped working. In fact, I think when I made some of this mod I was working ~70 hour weeks over three jobs last summer. I'm starting to get the distinct feeling that I'm some kind of contrarian or somesuch...

 

[r16]

to mainly serve as a conscription post , what is the extent of what if ? "Solaris" would probably be off , this cartoon from the 1980s being the only thing ı know on the subject , but gunpowder units through Dutch / English meddling ?

 

[Takhisis]

The fourth is gonna kinda be like this, revolving around:
1. Joining the Spanish Empire, submitting to Europeanization and Christianity (and the socio-political and military benefits that they bring), but having to lose your ways - the historic path
2. Learning and utilising new advancements which don't require your own submission - the middle, or neutral, path
3. Resisting colonisation, preserving your peoples' identity, and such - the path which veers further into "what-if"

I like that! It's very much like my ideas for the contemporary improved Sengoku scenario which I keep planning on for the One Day™ when I'll finally attempt it.

Do remember that some of the Maya resisted until the 1690s in Tayasal (Petén Itzá).

Also, seriously: cotton armour!

(Un)fortunately, I never stopped working. In fact, I think when I made some of this mod I was working ~70 hour weeks over three jobs last summer. I'm starting to get the distinct feeling that I'm some kind of contrarian or somesuch...

Congratulations on at least having a job.

 

[Virote_Considon]

to mainly serve as a conscription post , what is the extent of what if ? "Solaris" would probably be off , this cartoon from the 1980s being the only thing ı know on the subject , but gunpowder units through Dutch / English meddling ?

Yeah, sort of thing. I want to be able to use units such as the Aztec Mortar and such and some of the more fantastical Mesoamerican sea units.

 

[Takhisis]

Aztec Mortar

Interesting idea: what if, in a what-if twist of history, the Aztecs and so on had learned how to use gunpowder e.g. from the Japanese? Prior to Japan becoming a hermit state they'd been sending embassies to Rome by about the year 1600 so maybe they could even have taught our alt-history Aztecs about rocket carts and arquebuses and so on.

I think the real change in such a situation would be for the Aztecs to stop focusing on securing sacrificial victims and instead fighting to kill everyone on the battlefield. Of course, with other peoples you don't have such a problem in the first place.

 

[r16]

not very popular with historians but of course naturally Zheng He . Have all those "natives" have a Chinese Embassy small wonder where a really different China sends troops overseas for some reason ... Also allows a suddenly developed Navy for Americans against Europeans . (Personal feelings aside , is that "What do you want from us?" under your forum name ?)

edit : Or rather a great wonder that requires 5 preplaced buildings that can't be build by the player and gets demolished when captured by the Europeans , because British / Dutch against the Spanish was a thing ı had put forth in my silly ways . So that defending your top cities or helping an Mesoamerican frenemy , ı think the word is spelt like this , so that you can capture it yourself to make up for your losses ? Or a specific resource combination that would also require to be within city limits so that you can build your Good , No , no , Best China wonder , after first completing 5 or 10 buildings . Meaning you should control quite a chunk of territory that would impress your possible allies across two oceans to invest in your future with troops and tech transfers ?