Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Dec 1, 2020.
Welp didn't know that
Explains quite a few things LOL.
SV Turn 421- Korea - Emperor - Standard - Standard - Communitas_7a (No Tech trading/Brokering - No ancient ruins - No events) - Tradition/Statecraft/Rationalism/Order
Firstly, thanks to everyone involved in the ever, evolving excellence of VP! Kudos to the max.
I thoroughly enjoyed this playthrough. I've never played Korea before. They are indeed a powerhouse producer of GP and science once I got my Golden Ages rolling. Get the right World wonders and cooperation (Civilised jewellers) and by the end I was into an everlasting golden age.
In the end, I'd fired the rocket leaving the Ottomans 12 Techs behind. Ottomans were in first place during the entire game (Still 600 ahead in the end) At times 4 techs and 3 policies ahead. While also having about 8 more world wonders than the next.
In the beginning... I was stuck between Portugal, Spain and Poland. New Spain was aggressive in forward settling cities then founded early but once they founded didn't try to spread their religion until much later. I found Spain to be nicely balanced. They focused on building cities and the army first then attacked Portugal. While Portugal was distracted I started an opportunist war and gobbled up a few of her cities. Taking her as a vassal early. For a long time I had to withstood a triple threat attack from Poland, Spain and naval attacks by China but held out and finally took Spain as a vassal also.
I had 5 main cities throughout the game with the rest puppeted. While this was going on the Ottomans had their own large island with 20 cities after conquering Egypt. I slowed the Ottomans down and after sanctioning them. I took statecraft instead of fealty to be able to control the votes and not get sanctioned myself. If I don't take Statecraft I feel kinda uneasy that I don't have enough control of my own destiny in the game...(Not sure how other players feel). Nearing the end I had been denounced but by then it did not matter.
Koreas UU the Hwach'a is a beast. Properly promoted it packs 2 powerful hits each turn that whittles away enemies easily. I was able to defend simultaneously on 2 different flanks quite well. (Okay, it was against Spain and Poland and not the Zulus or Aztecs but I was still surprised at its power. Especially with +1 range)
The Ottomans had double my military ALL game but never once declared war on me. I had a very strong navy defending my coast so that may have put them off. I sanctioned them, took their City States alliances and stole from them but they never attacked. It would have been a massive mess for both of us if they had and I'm not sure how it would have gone.
In founding I took Apolisitc Tradition. It was a bad choice as I only spread aggressively in the beginning so had no bonus from it for many ages. Way of Transcendence would have been much better to be getting the larger later era bonus for playing the same way.
China was on its own island in a not so splendid isolation. She was definitely getting bribed into many wars. A lot of the time she offered a peace deal as soon as possible and went back to sharing embassies with me like nothing had happened.
I had no real problem with happiness. I was 100% percent until I puppeted all of Spain's cities and made her my vassal. After this it hovered between 45% and 60% (depending on how long another Civ warred against me). Besides war weariness most unhappiness came from urbanisation and poverty. I find poverty to be the biggest provider of unhappiness in my games.
AI bargaining logic
Trade deals were reasonable overall. Except when dealing with Poland - They valued a horse at 24gpt while other Civs valued it a 4gpt. Incrementally as they acquired more horses they valued them less.
I was asked to join a few wars.
I had a few DOF but once I got ahead everyone hated me. Expect my Vassal Portugal. Nice woman that Maria.
Overall, every Civ got enough of one strategic resource to use and sell. I had a lot of coal so I could use it to barter for aluminium etc. Seemed the same set up for the other Civs and vice versa etc
There was enough of space between Civs starting locations
Thanks again VP collective and wishing good luck to everyone here.
was there some change how embassy treaties work? If I'm late with Writing I usually sell them and buy as soon as I research Writing. With this version I have to renew the embassies after a while (no war or denunciation). It seems it doesn't happen if I do a embassy-embassy treaty or if I sell my embassy.
Thank you as usual.
And what if Domination Victory = ON only ?
If only Domination and/or Time victories are on (or no victories are enabled), the AI's "aggressive mode" is activated.
If one of Science, Culture or Diplomatic victories is enabled, this doesn't apply.
That's a bug. Please report it on Github.
Interesting stuff, thanks for the insight. Will keep it in mind in the future.
I'll be sure to omit any comment on AI aggressiveness when giving feedback in future too then keeping that in mind! Though honestly I don't really have any complaints about that, my game's aren't boring at least. More wars mean more promotions mwahahaha.
In my current game the Iroqouis have the whole of america and mexico, Inca south america, the zulus the entire of africa, china has all of china, japan and india, sweden europe. i've got england and managed to grab australia.
I'm actually losing most wars. the amount of units AI have is insane, anywhere I try opening up a front I just get met with masses of endless hordes I can't even take one city. But it's not just the vast amount of units, the AI just seems to know how to use them now, they're so smart with them. If it wasn't for my navy I'd have been crushed by now.
This is the most fun game I've had in a long time. Almost at modern era so hoping some modern units and atomic bombs can help break the stalemate I need to liberate some civs and chop some of these empires down to size.
I'll be playing this game for some weeks to come yet, still no crashes or major bugs - this is the first time I've never crashed on a giant map this late into the game. Overall great work team.
Seeing that map it is a pity that the Rise and Fall mod has chosen not to use the VP AI when it releases because the developer can't get it to work with his mod.
Haha, time to switch off Science Victory again
To be fair, I don't find the AIs too docile even when I turned it on a while ago. Maybe the warmongers are still warmongers and only the peaceful civs are more peaceful? One thing I've noticed was that I was not DOWed pre 100-turn (on Epic). But I played only 2 or 3 games with Science Victory on (and Domination and Time of course).
@tommytoxen , sounds like a fun game!
But seeing the screenshot, aren't the Chinese spamming Ironclads a bit too much? Where are their armored cruisers?
I HAVE DONE IT! I HAVE FINALLY VANQUISHED THE AWFUL FIRAXIS DIPLOMACY MEMORY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM AND REPLACED IT WITH SOMETHING SANE!
Now it should be way easier to work with when I'm making changes, and I deleted over 2,100 lines of useless code, along with numerous useless memory variables, and shrank the size of the arrays to the size they actually need to function properly.
There may be a few bugs here and there to fix but saving/loading seems to work just fine with the new system. Thanks to @ilteroi for his help in getting this right.
Warmonger AIs have higher WAR/HOSTILE approach scores to begin with if conditions are correct. I'm working on the new relationship logic as of now, since I've finished the initial work for the memory/opinion systems and promise logic.
However, they're not intended to be docile without it enabled, just at their normal level of aggression.
Also note that you can enable the AI aggressive mode manually in DiploAIOptions.sql if you're so inclined
City Production AI is within Gazebo's purview.
I've just added an option to DiploAIOptions.sql for next version to allow players to disable the extra aggression.
Only took 5 minutes to do, so why not?
That's great news! What does that mean in laymans term, how will that help you get the game even better?
Don't tell me they were using real numbers for boolean variables...
@Recursive, these are great news! Well done guys!
Thank you for your hard work and Merry Christmas to all of you!
They had this weird system where variables were initialized twice, and every single variable was given an "array wrapper" (only actually needed for 2 variables) which resulted in loads of useless code and it may have even doubled the amount of memory used, by each player towards each other player.
There was a fair amount of memory with no practical use (about 2-4 MB in total, not counting my earlier removals). Plus, arrays that only needed to be 22 or 63 in size were 80 in size, stored by each player towards each other player. Some variables were larger when they could have been short or char variables...for instance, I capped "number of demands made" at 255.
No counters should overflow or underflow anymore as checks were added for all of that, and more checks prevent reading or writing beyond array size which would crash the game.
Some things had both a variable tracking if something happened and a second one tracking when it happened. I simply replaced this with a single variable for both. For instance, "DoFAccepted" and "DoFCounter" are replaced with "DoFAcceptedTurn".
In the case of promises it was also bad; each player, for every other player, had a boolean variable tracking if each promise was made, broken or ignored...I replaced this with one char variable that simply stores the "state" for 1/3 as much memory.
And all the useless code has to be compiled, increasing file size and further reducing available memory.
It wasn't a complete reduction, as I've also added some new variables for expensive checks to save on performance and reduce turn time, and I increased the size of turn counter variables so that diplomacy AI will work fine up until turn 2 billion or so (up from 32000), but still...
While diplomacy on the whole doesn't have a massive memory footprint, especially with the final memory usage being in GB, I'm confident I saved at least a couple MB, not to mention my sanity.
When I add, change, or remove something in memory, I need to add it to 5 places rather than 10, it's more organized, it's much less likely to make a typo that breaks savegames, it's less costly (so I've freed up memory for new leader dialogue or tables or whatever), it's easier to debug, less prone to bugs, easier to read, understand and modify, and it's much, much less frustrating to deal with.
Is it normal, that the AI releases its vassal?
In my last game Persia had 3 vassals and only Poland and me (and my vassal) were still free states. But at one point Persia realeased his vassals and I don't understand why you should ever release a vassal or is there a reason I don't know?
AI has a chance of freeing their vassal if A) the vassal rebels and they don't want to go to war with them, or B) they really like their vassal.
This is one of the occasions where the AI behaves more like an AI and less like a merciless human.
They may also have been bribed into it, or had them released by the World Congress.
And I thought 700 turns was a long game lol.
Something I find interesting about Civ 6 (Gazebo forgive me) is that some of the presets include 'optimize memory' vs. 'optimize performance'. I can't say I really understand the details, but it seems to be 'how smoothly does the game run' vs. 'chances of the game crashing'.
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