New Official Version - December 1st (12-1)

[Vaya]

My last playthrough was that one AI destroyed 5 other AIs by turn 150, and they were too far ahead to defend against.
It was a deity 8-civ epic speed pangaea. :'(

I think I know why. In my current game I fought multiple AIs and attacked a lot of cities and it ussually comes to a point, when defenders just decide to give up city defence, move garrison and surrounding units out and form a line of defence just behind the city. This often happens long before I brake their defences and am able to capture the city. Which means I can basically take it without siege or heavy loses only risking that I lose unit that took the city if they decide to recapture it. I was also under the impression that this issue is more common if the city doesnt have walls.

Sadly I was not documenting it otherwise I would have posted report on github.
Also I would like to see players more focused to skirmishes with their neighbours than bribing/beeing bribed to distant wars. I remember about a year ago when I was playing a game where Mongols or Iroquois where going like a tank through all their neighbours, Kinda miss that.

But except for the city defense part I must say AI tactical capabilities have been improved very significantly.

 

[vyyt]

@Vaya, based on my own limited experience with the newest version and a few reports I have seen here, I think the AI are very capable of steamrolling neighboring civs again.

 

[pineappledan]

I think I know why. In my current game I fought multiple AIs and attacked a lot of cities and it ussually comes to a point, when defenders just decide to give up city defence, move garrison and surrounding units out and form a line of defence just behind the city. This often happens long before I brake their defences and am able to capture the city. Which means I can basically take it without siege or heavy loses only risking that I lose unit that took the city if they decide to recapture it. I was also under the impression that this issue is more common if the city doesnt have walls.

Sadly I was not documenting it otherwise I would have posted report on github.
Also I would like to see players more focused to skirmishes with their neighbours than bribing/beeing bribed to distant wars. I remember about a year ago when I was playing a game where Mongols or Iroquois where going like a tank through all their neighbours, Kinda miss that.

But except for the city defense part I must say AI tactical capabilities have been improved very significantly.

This, the AI is such a clever girl now. I tried taking Pohokwi from the Shoshone in my game, but they kept their navy in reserve for when I took the city and just started hammering the city once I grabbed it. I realized pretty quickly that I couldn't hold the city, so I started razing it, but I can't hold the city for a single turn for the razing to actually complete, and I just have to keep ssacrificing 1 melee unit every turn just to break the back of their military. Sumer, my other neighbor started joining in and made that front a meat grinder. If they ever recaptured Pohokwi, they would immediately liberate it back to the Shoshone, so I've been forced back on a 2v1 front because I can't sacrifice units at this rate.

Well played, AI, you bastard.

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

Comment out this line:

('GOODY_GOLDEN_AGE', 'TXT_KEY_GOODY_GOLDEN_AGE', 'TXT_KEY_GOODY_CHOOSE_GOLDEN_AGE', 'AS2D_GOODY_WARRIOR', 0, 200, 0),

This doesn't seem to work, I got one ancient ruin that just read "unknown" :S

 

[notaspambot]

This doesn't seem to work, I got one ancient ruin that just read "unknown" :S

Looks like the problem is that you've only deleted the definition and kept all its references intact. What you actually want to delete from is HandicapInfo_Goodies, with or without the above change. Adding this line to the end of the file should work:
DELETE FROM HandicapInfo_Goodies WHERE GoodyType='GOODY_GOLDEN_AGE';

 

[RedHotTomato]

@Vaya, based on my own limited experience with the newest version and a few reports I have seen here, I think the AI are very capable of steamrolling neighboring civs again.

I dont mind if I am the Aggressive AI's neighbour as i will try to do something to stop their warmongering. The sad thing is that the out of control AI is always at the other end of the map, and there is no way for me to reach them other than declaring war with the other nations along the way, which means less allies to defeat the 10 tech ahead warmongering civ.

 

[SpankmyMetroid]

This, the AI is such a clever girl now. I tried taking Pohokwi from the Shoshone in my game, but they kept their navy in reserve for when I took the city and just started hammering the city once I grabbed it. I realized pretty quickly that I couldn't hold the city, so I started razing it, but I can't hold the city for a single turn for the razing to actually complete, and I just have to keep ssacrificing 1 melee unit every turn just to break the back of their military. Sumer, my other neighbor started joining in and made that front a meat grinder. If they ever recaptured Pohokwi, they would immediately liberate it back to the Shoshone, so I've been forced back on a 2v1 front because I can't sacrifice units at this rate.

Well played, AI, you bastard.

It’s always useful to have a mounted melee unit (or blitz melee) on standby to be able to take a city and scoot out if you can’t defend it, unless it’s a good city that you don’t want to puppet because that’ll make it go back and forth a few times... after that it’ll be as useful as a fork without prongs. If it’s a city you wanted to puppet anyway, whittling down the pop works well to mitigate some unhappiness.

Better yet you’ll take out an AI unit every time you retake the city. This used to be real exploitable but the AI behavior changed to not want to commit to taking a city in certain circumstances (even when they absolutely could have, and should have traded a unit to destroy the city defenses when it flips).

 

[Antubiz]

The things I Observed in new version:
Ai is much better at war and skirmishes, it usually ends in guriella type war thought where ai just withdraws, baits you to move closer while they recruit more units. Its ok in later eras, but it results in prolonged earlier wars that sometimes cannot be won even with huge upperhand. Also ai seems to gang much more on players waring other ai, not sure if its supose to be that way.
Penalties to combat were another thing that seems to got bigger(warmonger), at least it felt like it. After 20 turn war on epic i did like 1/3 of dmg that the same unit of enemy did (mind you that i had better terrain bonuses). It was after i lost 3 units and enemy lost like 6.
All things considered AI shape to be a real beast. I just noticed that while you cant really do much military wise on early turns (it really was impossible with ai printing units every second turn while it builded walls) you can still best ai in every other aspect. I usualy play emp or king, but now i tried prince and like i said, it felt like i wasnt supose to early war, because of said penalties/ai bonuses.

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

Looks like the problem is that you've only deleted the definition and kept all its references intact. What you actually want to delete from is HandicapInfo_Goodies, with or without the above change. Adding this line to the end of the file should work:
DELETE FROM HandicapInfo_Goodies WHERE GoodyType='GOODY_GOLDEN_AGE';

That worked! Thank you very much <3

 

[glider1]

It’s always useful to have a mounted melee unit (or blitz melee) on standby to be able to take a city and scoot out if you can’t defend it, unless it’s a good city that you don’t want to puppet because that’ll make it go back and forth a few times... after that it’ll be as useful as a fork without prongs. If it’s a city you wanted to puppet anyway, whittling down the pop works well to mitigate some unhappiness.

Better yet you’ll take out an AI unit every time you retake the city. This used to be real exploitable but the AI behavior changed to not want to commit to taking a city in certain circumstances (even when they absolutely could have, and should have traded a unit to destroy the city defenses when it flips).

What is the real life analogy to that do you think? If the city defenses are down a full strength garrison unit will die instantly to a city attack and his own defense strength is near useless. So the garrison has to abandon the city before this happens and let the city fall. Yet if that same garrison were not in the city but on an adjacent tile it would defend at full strength. Seems a human exploit using mounted melee to capture the city then move out of the city in the same turn.

 

[ilteroi]

i certainly like to hear that tactical AI is finally good enough ... happy holidays!

*cue evil laughter*

 

[smorgasborgas]

Quick thought: what if attacking un-garrisoned cities behaved a little like a ship attacking an embarked unit? Where it doesn't do damage to the attacker, but the city retains it's higher defenses?

It means shooting 4 crossbows at a city and walking in to capture it with a pathfinder isn't possible just because it doesn't have a garrison. On the other hand, it allows for a besieged city to be attacked with impunity by infantry.

it wouldn't make a huge difference, but maybe a compromise

 

[Phosphoraptor]

Are teams in multiplayer still broken? Played as a team of 2 on quick and production and gold costs seem too much for quick.

 

[Recursive]

I literally had 3 civs declare war on me within 1 turn of meeting them on the founding of the WC. The tactical AI is much improved, but the diplomatic AI in this version is completely unplayable, IMO.

Yeah, I have some idea as to what's up. Working on this.

 

[cheezitsrice]

I literally had 3 civs declare war on me within 1 turn of meeting them on the founding of the WC. The tactical AI is much improved, but the diplomatic AI in this version is completely unplayable, IMO.

I agree. I'm not playing an aggressive style on a game right now (no warmonger score at all) and I feel like it's a constant barrage of DOW after DOW from other civs.

 

[James Ryle]

Authority/Statecraft/Rationalism/Imperialism/Order)

Congrats on your Victory.
I’m curious, did you finish both the Rationalism and Imperialism tree or were you being strategic picking up starting bonuses and specific policies? What was your overall thinking?

 

[Zuizgond]

AI NOT AGGRESSIVE IN IT'S EXPANSION
The AI doesn't seem as agressive in the expansion of it's empire as in earlier patches (it has been like this for a long time I think). I'd see it as a weakness, for example, in the case of since Egypt in my latest game could have built 2-3 more cities to the west of it's current 5 cities. I wouldn't consider 8 cities to be 'over-expansion'.

They are missing out on iron, horse, cocoa, sugar, inscense and a natural wonder. I'd really like to see an city on that nice little island.

Spoiler free land :

View attachment 578928

Agree with this. Since several versions, AI is pretty slow to expand. Is it linked to the rework of Progress?

 

[Phosphoraptor]

Are teams in multiplayer still broken? Played as a team of 2 on quick and production and gold costs seem too much for quick.

Did some testing, apparently Quick speed scales everything by ~2/3, so no problems here. But Quick and 2 player team does not scale tech costs by 2x but by 1.5x, causing players to research faster than they can build. Can we get this fixed?

 

[Rean]

You could adjust it manually, search for
TECH_COST_EXTRA_TEAM_MEMBER_MODIFIER
in Civ5Units.xml in the modpack override folder and set it to 100.

 

[LifeOfBrian]

Re: diplomacy and aggression, playing on Deity I've found that once you have a strong army, people will mostly leave you alone or even offer defensive pacts and friendships.