New Official Version - June 19th (6-19)

[inzlinger]

I'm using 4th UC but i don't think it's the cause for the massive yield inflation if that is truely the cause, i started a game on the previous beta using the exact same settings and mods on an objectively much slower and generally worse start than the matches i quit *dyes as forested plantation as opposed to pearls on the the match i quit* i managed to settle 7 cities and played the first 200 turns, my happiness did not drop below 70% without even completing the road connections between my cities.
Something feels really off in the current version at least for me .... Although i liked the changes in this version especially lighthouse and harbour CS but i think i'm sticking to the "playable" version for the time being.

My guess is, that it's epic speed with the new 1.5 Factor for the AI bonuses. This is huge and it feel like one step higher in difficulty. My expirience is the same: Playing progress on emperor and epic speed with a non religiuos nation makes it near impossible to get a religion anymore without a lot of luck. Fighting unhappiness is very hard. Progress needs a buff anyway.

Btw: Could anyone explain how the a/b/c bonuses work and where you can find the 1.5/3 factors for the gamespeed?

 

[CppMaster]

My guess is, that it's epic speed with the new 1.5 Factor for the AI bonuses. This is huge and it feel like one step higher in difficulty. My expirience is the same: Playing progress on emperor and epic speed with a non religiuos nation makes it near impossible to get a religion anymore without a lot of luck. Fighting unhappiness is very hard. Progress needs a buff anyway.

Oh, ok, that explains a lot.
Guys, if you post a balance problem that you had on non-standard settings, include these settings. It seems that this problem occurs on slower speed, not standard speed, so it's a matter of adjusting speed settings, not general balance.

 

[Ziad]

Marathon has 2x yield rather than 3x yield (it was changed a while back) as it made instant yields too powerful.

Just in case you want to tune something

 

[Rekk]

A big thing about tourism right now is that only the final value matters. Early tourism yields are so low that they may let you get exotic/familiar earlier, but influence bonuses don't help with a tourism victory. Because tourism yields are so high later in the game, a few turns of late tourism can easily overtake the culture produced by opposing civs in their early turns, so there really isn't a huge point of early tourism unless you're chasing after early exotic/familiar bonuses.

ie. 1 turn of late tourism is equivalent to an era of early tourism.

Throwing out something wild here, but what if the influence levels gave you an increasingly positive tourism modifier, so that's it's in your best interest to gain influence levels as early as possible?

 

[CppMaster]

Throwing out something wild here, but what if the influence levels gave you an increasingly positive tourism modifier, so that's it's in your best interest to gain influence levels as early as possible?

I like your idea. It'd need to be tweaked, though, which could take several patches.

 

[Neo Nguyen]

My camps have 1f but Pantheon say +1f if forest umimproved , is this a bug?

 

[Vuffster]

A big thing about tourism right now is that only the final value matters. Early tourism yields are so low that they only let you get familiar/popular earlier, bit the bonuses don't help with a tourism victory. Because tourism yields are so high later in the game, a few turns of late tourism can easily overtake the culture produced by opposing civs in their early turns, so there really isn't a huge point if early tourism.

ie. 1 turn of late tourism is equivalent to an era of early tourism.

Throwing out something wild here, but what if the influence levels gave you an increasingly positive tourism modifier, so that's it's in your best interest to gain influence levels as early as possible?

I like your idea. It'd need to be tweaked, though, which could take several patches.

That could be handy, though you can still run into the problem of not meeting the strongest culture civ till mid-game, so it might not have much effect in the end.

If we wanted to avoid needing to rebalance tourism numbers, I've often thought that it'd be neat and thematically appopriate if influence levels gave positive diplomatic modifiers. To keep the AI from being too passive as a result, maybe it should only be for Exotic and Familiar levels, if we wanted to say that Popular should make the AI see you as a threat.

 

[tu_79]

My camps have 1f but Pantheon say +1f if forest umimproved , is this a bug?

The bonus goes to the city, not the tile.

 

[Patee]

Any chance for at least a patch to fix plane bug?

It is quite game breaking in later eras..

 

[Recursive]

That could be handy, though you can still run into the problem of not meeting the strongest culture civ till mid-game, so it might not have much effect in the end.

If we wanted to avoid needing to rebalance tourism numbers, I've often thought that it'd be neat and thematically appopriate if influence levels gave positive diplomatic modifiers. To keep the AI from being too passive as a result, maybe it should only be for Exotic and Familiar levels, if we wanted to say that Popular should make the AI see you as a threat.

AI plays to win - and such a system is internally inconsistent anyway.

 

[Rekk]

That could be handy, though you can still run into the problem of not meeting the strongest culture civ till mid-game, so it might not have much effect in the end.

If we wanted to avoid needing to rebalance tourism numbers, I've often thought that it'd be neat and thematically appopriate if influence levels gave positive diplomatic modifiers. To keep the AI from being too passive as a result, maybe it should only be for Exotic and Familiar levels, if we wanted to say that Popular should make the AI see you as a threat.

The AI acts like the player. We aren't super enthused when someone goes up an influence level with us since we gain no benefit and they gain one over us, so neither should the AI.

That's not to say that we couldn't make a change where the civilization we have influence over gets some benefit from it as well...

 

[JamesNinelives]

you can't win a SV without CERN and the Hubble Telescope

You really can though. I've done it more than once. It's easier with those wonders, but they aren't essential in the way that CN tower seems to be for CV (based on what people are saying).

My guess is, that it's epic speed with the new 1.5 Factor for the AI bonuses. This is huge and it feel like one step higher in difficulty.

Yeah. I've gone down a difficulty myself playing on Epic speed. I did manage one win on my old settings but only after many failures.

 

[Stalker0]

You really can though. I've done it more than once. It's easier with those wonders, but they are essential in the way that CN tower seems to be for CV (based on what people are saying).


Yeah. I've gone down a difficulty myself playing on Epic speed. I did manage one win on my old settings but only after many failures.

I've definitely done it without CERN. Heck sometimes my science is fast enough at that point that I will finish the techs before I finish CERN. Also at that point generally hammers are my limiting factor for the SV, not tech.

I don't think Hubble is necessary for SV, though it does help a really good amount, and I could hear arguments that its also a bit too much for what it does.

 

[JamesNinelives]

I've definitely done it without CERN. Heck sometimes my science is fast enough at that point that I will finish the techs before I finish CERN. Also at that point generally hammers are my limiting factor for the SV, not tech.

I don't think Hubble is necessary for SV, though it does help a really good amount, and I could hear arguments that its also a bit too much for what it does.

Tbh I think late-game in general is not quite as balanced as the rest of the game. I guess it makes sense because it's much easier to get feedback on early- and mid-game.

 

[CrazyG]

I've definitely done it without CERN. Heck sometimes my science is fast enough at that point that I will finish the techs before I finish CERN. Also at that point generally hammers are my limiting factor for the SV, not tech.

I don't think Hubble is necessary for SV, though it does help a really good amount, and I could hear arguments that its also a bit too much for what it does.

On old patches I finished the spaceship before Hubble finished, and I still skip CERN sometimes. I get limited by gold or hammers.

Hubble probably does a touch too much though. The late game often feels a bit blurry to me, with free great scientists just appearing left and right.

 

[Stalker0]

with free great scientists just appearing left and right.

Even without hubble I do seem to get a ridiculous amount of GS late game, and just blitz through techs. If hubble only gave 1 GS it would still be really good. The free SS factory is solid, but the extra +25% to parts in your capital can actually be the most powerful bonus for late game SV.

 

[azum4roll]

I think both Hubble and CERN come too late - by the time you finish one of them you already have the techs for spaceship parts. Only truly useful when you go super wide and can build 4-5 spaceship parts at the same time, I guess.

 

[JamesNinelives]

I think both Hubble and CERN come too late - by the time you finish one of them you already have the techs for spaceship parts. Only truly useful when you go super wide and can build 4-5 spaceship parts at the same time, I guess.

I always build 3 pieces at once. Just faster than building everything in my capital. Maybe that's a quirk of playing on a slower game speed though.

 

[2506]

I think both Hubble and CERN come too late - by the time you finish one of them you already have the techs for spaceship parts. Only truly useful when you go super wide and can build 4-5 spaceship parts at the same time, I guess.

Only if you tech in that direction. I always go for Hubble first, then make a decision on CERN vs SS parts next.

 

[crdvis16]

I often don't satisfy the policy requirements for hubble/cern when going for science victory, but have often won anyway.