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New Official Version - June 19th (6-19)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Jun 19, 2020.

  1. Recursive

    Recursive Emperor

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    AI aggression is getting a huge buff for next version.
     
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  2. Boombar

    Boombar Chieftain

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    any ETA for new version?
     
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  3. CppMaster

    CppMaster Emperor

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    Good. It's sad to see Mongolia with just 2 cities that have never even tried to capture some cities :p
     
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  4. Recursive

    Recursive Emperor

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    Ask Gazebo that - I would guess we're close though.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  5. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Yep, closing in. Gotta sort out some changes.

    G
     
  6. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives Emperor

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    It's not obvious to me where your conflict would be. I use Global Relations, Historical Religions, Quick Turns, and Really Advanced Setup myself and haven't run into any issues. I think Promotion Flags is pretty safe too, and in theory Toft flags should be as well. At a guess I'd suggest at least running without the Enhanced Naval Warfare and Enhanced Air Warfare for starters, those seem they might be most likely to affect warfare decision-making.

    @CppMaster is correct though, the best case practise for modding in general is to start from the base game/mod (VP in this case) and test one mod at a time. Actually, ideally you want to look through the descriptions of those mods before using them and see if anyone else has had problems, and what versions of VP they are made for. Try to find out what specific changes each mod makes. It's not always obvious even from the description, which is why testing each individually is useful. For example, Community Events for VP (which I use) mostly adds events but I think also adds a new world wonder (The World Trade Center).

    Yep, I used to use Krakatoa Fix myself but remember reading somewhere that it's not needed any more in VP. Although it may have also been the map script I use (Continents Plus), not sure.
     
    rp03ev likes this.
  7. Asterix Rage

    Asterix Rage Warlord

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    are not involved in AI aggressivity. Guaranty.
    Actually both mods are designed to be as VP friendly as possible

    What is the difficulty level?
    All mods not "for VP" stamped can be suspicious.
     
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  8. Recursive

    Recursive Emperor

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    @Asterix Rage @rp03ev It's an issue with the VP AI.

    ^^^
     
  9. rp03ev

    rp03ev Chieftain

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    I hope it tries to invade you if you ignore building an army...these new versions you can literally just ignore military since AI never tries to attack you even if they have 10x more military. Kinda reminds me of Civ6 AI.
     
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  10. Recursive

    Recursive Emperor

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    One CTD issue has been fixed by ilteroi!

    The crash added in 6-19-2 was a problem with AI scouting moves. Fix should be merged soon.

    I think G has also fixed a memory bug causing a crash when the AI was evaluating City-State wars.
     
  11. Recursive

    Recursive Emperor

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    You should see far more aggression, especially if you're weak. Data so far indicates that there's nothing wrong with the diplo AI, it just doesn't have enough weight towards the WAR approach...that won't be a problem next version. It will need playtesting though. :)
     
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  12. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    A bit more offensive push in the process of attacking would be also nice.
    Even facing 7 of 8 AIs at same time and having only 22 units from a cap of 34, I have no problem to withstand them and didnt lose a single unit, cause their attacks are too often only consists by unit entering one by one or didnt entering my territory.
     
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  13. Recursive

    Recursive Emperor

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    Tactical AI issues are ilteroi's domain, please report them on Github.
     
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  14. rp03ev

    rp03ev Chieftain

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    it wasnt like this in versions from ~2 years ago when i played last...they would actually proper invade you. im trying to figure out what version i played 2 years, had the best battle AI of any 4x games i ever played. the new versions are meh when it comes to battle/war ai, reminds me too much of civ6 ai.
     
  15. Snipergw

    Snipergw Chieftain

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    Even though "going backwards" sounds weird, I do actually think it's true. We had a discussion about this in (I think) the Going for Gold thread. A few years ago the AI was cutthroat and would absolutely use its advantages against you. I never went a game without wars, even on low difficulties. If you have a close neighbor, and you didn't invest in a lot of armed forces, you'd get rolled. This was still a thing when unit supply was added: I remember someone advising to always have half your supply cap of modern units, but I found 3/4th to be more appropriate.

    Lately, though? I played a vanilla game not too long ago but kept to a mostly VP unit build order, and I got absolutely rolled. At some point the offensive AI (especially early-game) got absolutely knee-capped, and it's never recovered. I used to tell everyone I recommended the mod to that they should be very careful early game. These days even the Huns or the Songhai barely worry me. If I play conservatively, like I always have, I'll get one war declared on me when the AI's "omg the human is winning" mechanic kicks in, but it will be far too late for them to do anything about it. But in those days I often suffered nukes and massive invasions as I assembled my spacecraft.

    It could all be a cognitive bias of my own, of course, because I don't have saves or logs or lines of code to back it up, but it's been seconded a fair few times in various threads. It's an odd one.
     
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  16. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Recursive has literally said multiple times that the AI is getting more aggressive in this very thread...why the heck are people still complaining about the passivity?
     
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  17. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Actually the AI is playing better if it evaluates correctly that it has little chances against the human player. Otherwise it is just giving us free experience for our units and crippling itself.

    If, as recursive said, it's a problem with the stance, it's easy to fix. But if it were a problem with the human strength evaluation (AI being rightfully scared of the player) then it would be better to increase AI will to seek alliances vs the strongest guys, instead of seeking the friendship of someone stronger who would end up betraying it.
    I would seek alliances with other players with a strength similar to mine and different objectives, against other players that are too threatening or that I know I will compete directly against.
     
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  18. rp03ev

    rp03ev Chieftain

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    Do you know around what version this changed? Its not cognitive bias, I played this game a while back too and came back to it with the latest versions and the battle/war AI is borderline Civ6 ai compared to how it used to be..its a night and day difference. Think they tried to make the AI role play instead of giving a challenge like it used to when it came to wars/invasions. Its hard to find all the previous versions with working links, I know I last played around end of 2018....but do you know when they decided to make the AI passive? Ima try to find a version even if its 2 years old and play that instead of these new versions.. where you dont have to worry about getting invaded or even if you do its like Civ6 AI sending 2-3 troops at a time to slaughter.
     
  19. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives Emperor

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    While we're still on this version I thought I'd share some feedback from a game I've just finished on 6/19/2 without the hotfixes. Community events for VP mod, Huge map and Epic speed. Otherwise standard settings (Events and ruins on).

    Playing as Arabia on King was fun. I found myself forward regularly forward settled by an unexpectedly aggressive Maya nearby who took Authority this game! The other main threat was The Netherlands who has a Incense plains start and took advantage of the Ottomans loosing their initial settler to barbarians and expanded freely. I missed out on the Arabia-specific even that buffs desert tiles but I didn't have all that much desert nearby and I still built Petra in my capital so my cities felt pretty good. I had a cotton start this game which I'm not super excited about but in the end it worked out quite well! I had hills and forest nearby as well as floodplains, horses, and stone so overall pretty nice. Something I like about Arabia is having a city surrounded by Great Person Tile Improvements by the end of the game.

    Things that were good: generally the AI felt pretty competitive. I was able to hit most of my objectives but towards the end by friend Portugal who I had been sending trade routes the entire game shot ahead and grabbed most of the late-game wonders. I also found myself routinely out-produced in world projects my the Netherlands so that gave them some nice boosts. I still did pretty well and was 1st-3rd place from about Renaissance onwards though. I like a lot of the changes that have been implemented across recent versions though: the new Agribusiness is awesome, I like the new Zoos, lakes and pastures feel a lot better than they used to and forest/jungle feels good. I like how the new Abode of Peace focuses on city-states, it's fun to use. AI diplomacy feels smarter - my allies who had different ideologies didn't suddently want to kill me which I am very much a fan of.

    Things that were eh: I don't like that late-game power plants require factories to be built. It honestly makes factories out-perform the competing train stations and seaports IMO. It's annoying to save resources for that powerful late-game boost from Hydroelectric or Wind power plants and then find I can only build a few because most of my cities don't have factories in. Statecraft still feels pretty powerful (and popular) even with the recent changes, but my map settings (huge map means lots of city-states) may mean that it's just a smart choice in the circumstances. Something that feels odd though is hearing all the time and so-and-so has a strategic monopoly on a particular strategic resource mainly just from taking Statecraft. That seems silly.

    Something else that was a bit off is that the AI don't seem particularly good at defending their religion in their own cities. As with previous games on this version, during late game passive pressure (and the occassional great prophet) dominated and several religions more or less disappeared because of the constant pressure from their neighbours. I was in a similar situation, using inquisitors regularly was a pretty straight-forward fix. Even if it comes with a cost, that's better than loosing your religion. So I'm not sure what's going on in other nations. I suspect may be the AI doesn't know how to use inquisitors properly and they are still sending them to convert cities without a majority religion (and therefore wasting their faith as well as not defending well). What I often do it (to combat passive pressure) use a missionary first to convert the city back to my religion and then an inquisitor to get rid of followers of other religions. Although of course if you loose a city to a great prophet it's the other way around - prophet first and then missionary straight away, before foreign passive pressure can kick in.

    In terms of pantheons I think Goddess of Nature should get a buff, it still feels much too niche. Otherwise I guess things are generally OK. Founding is still more difficult than it should be IMO: it's easier to build wonders you want, settle land you want, or even conquer enemy cities than it is to found a religion (let alone get particular beliefs). I can't help feeling that sometimes it might be in my interest to forgo investing in faith entirely and just let someone else convert me and/or look for an enemy holy city to conquer. That said, based on what other people have said my settings are very likely a factor in this. Not sure if it's the Epic Speed or the Huge map size, but something is different from the experiences I read about other in other people's games.

    This version has known (and fixed, I think) bugs with Morocco and planes disappearing. I worked around this by disabling Morocco in the advanced setup and eventually just giving up on using planes. Still had fun tbh :). I want to try playing a different civ when the next version comes out! Tossing up between Morocco, The Celts, Indonesia, and Carthage ^.^.

    Spoiler Ancient Era :
    20200806144100_1.jpg

    Spoiler Renaissance Era :
    20200806143925_1.jpg

    Spoiler Modern Era :
    20200806143621_1.jpg

    Spoiler Information Era :
    20200806143109_1.jpg

    Spoiler Science Victory :
    20200806141558_1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
    James Ryle and Maxxim69 like this.
  20. Valvts

    Valvts A Plant

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    When will the new version come :D?

    By the way, is there a way to disable certain civs from the random civs game?
     

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