There aren't really separate pagan religions in the game, only the notion of being pagan (i.e. having no state religion). The different art, names and buildings are only civ specific flavour. You cannot really tie wonders to specific pagan religions anyways because civs cannot pick their pagan religion, so in essence that would tie wonders to civilisations, negating their whole point.
New pagan religions?
- Thread starter Genghis Khaiser
- Start date
DC123456789
Deity
To make it so that it can only be built in the New World.
I think this heightens the need for the insertion of certain historically significant "pagan" religions as actual religions. Shinto has to take priority #1. And I still think Tengriism should be in, but I understand countervailing views as long as we can assure that the Mongols go either Buddhist or Muslim (no daoiam or cofuscianism)
Why exactly?
star15389
Prince
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- Sep 7, 2008
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- 493
Shinto "paganism" was Japan's state religion during the time when Japan was most important - but not earlier. A tricky situation and just being secular feels as unsatisfying as staying Buddhist. Very hard to make it work though since Buddhism just replacing Shinto in the Heian period works about as well as Confucianism and Taoism replacing Chinese folk religion, which is to say imperfectly but close enough not worry about, but breaks down completely later on. Spitballing: making Buddhism a minor religion could help Asia in general, not just Japan. Would make it far more likely for AI Korea to convert to Confucianism, make Hinduism dominant in India and more important in SE Asia, and allow Korean shamanism to be represented. Admittedly would not work with Thailand
star15389's answer above. Shintoism was Japan's state religion during its most important historical period as represented by its UHV(s). Having Shinto in the game would also make Japan alot less friendly w its Asian neighbors which isn't all together unwarranted. Finally, hurting Japanese stability might not be the worst thing as cycles of unification and civil war mirror Japan's pre-modern history pretty well.
The Tengriism issue is perhaps not the best solution, but what I really want is the Mongols to NOT go confuscian or Daoist. (I have seen them go both fairly often, particularly confuscian.) If we can make it a trinary (did i make that word up?) choice between paganism, islam or buddhism that would be perfect.
Do not like the idea of making Buddhism a minor religion. East Asian civs should be able to choose between it, confuscianism, daoism (in china), and shinto (in japan). That is historically accurate.
I'm kind of unhappy with the answers I've received. So wonders in general should be accessible to not just one or two civs but to all ofthem or most. At the same time, we accept that South American wonders can only be built in SA, at least before corn spawns in other parts of the world. What I'm wondering is, why don't we extend this South America logic to other areas of the world? Why accept that AI China will beat human Egypt to the Pyramids if it so chooses?
star15389
Prince
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- Sep 7, 2008
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Fair number of wonders are effectively locked to one civ with the religion or resource requirements. All of China's wonders, St. Basil's Cathedral (most of the time), Mausoleum of Mausollos, etc. A Shinto wonder could be soft locked to Japan by requiring no state religion, a silk or silver resource, and being available with Civil Service
Malchar
Prince
If you plan ahead as a player, it's quite easy to get whichever wonder you want in spite of the restrictions. The porcelain tower was quite nice in my Egypt game. However, if the AI was afforded the same capability, then any historicity would quickly evaporate. In any given game, most if the civs should mostly follow history, and the best way to do that is with harsh, but not impossible, restrictions.
I think the difference is that Shinto was a really big deal to Japan's history and including it would better mirror that history. But when you ask the question ................... I can't really think of any specific gameplay reasons that it's NECESSARY. It would improve the experience a little maybe by hurting Japanese stability or making them really hostile. But it's not necessary -- you're right.
Is it possible to build Manchu Pichu as the AI Maya or Aztec? (I've never checked.) I think the objection is that the Inca are alone in South America not the "South America" part.
Not sure how practically possible it is, but there is no restriction that prevents Mesoamerican civs from building Macchu Picchu, or the Incas building the Floating Gardens. I shouldn't have focused on South America in particular in that reply.
Malchar
Prince
I hadn't been playing for a while so I'm afraid I got the wonder names confused. I actually built the Grand Canal, which happens to be much better for Egypt anyway. This was on 1.14, so I was able to easily found Confucianism myself.
I think that Egypt creating their own major state religion and building the Grand Canal is a perfect example of plausible alternative history that we should strive for with gameplay incentives.
