New Papal States

[SeekTruthFromFacts]

Excommunication should, obviously, mean the removal of Catholicism from all your cities (with consequent effects on culture production and happiness, etc.)

That should force people to think again

 

[ezzlar]

That would be a bit too rash. The people would still be catholic. The war penalty for fighting sisters and brothers of faith would be more fitting. Or loss of faith points.

 

[constantinople]

Yes, that would be a better UHV for the Byzantines.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I read all your posts of course, but I'm not yet sure about the Papal States
It's too much work - especially if you want to make them playable - and there are so many things to do in the mod
Maybe if 3Miro or Morholt is back and willing to help in it

Btw, thinking along the lines of capturable Rome:
If you are catholic:
Waging a war against the Papal States may result a couple powerful catholic nations declaring war on you, nulling your faith points and a happiness penalty in all your cities for a significant amount of turns
If you manage to conquer Rome it represents puting your papal candidate into power as a new pope, resulting in huge faith point boost and some other bonuses
Rome of course won't be yours, it would return to the Papal States right away.

If you are non-catholic:
All catholic nations declare war on you right away, without exceptions
Rome still returns to the Papal States when captured, but you get a huge gold boost
Representing ransom from the pope and all the other catholics

Only exception is Byzantium (kinda part of their UP) they can conquer and keep Rome for real.
It may even be part of their new 3rd UHV as some of you suggested

EDIT: It may be even better, if we don't restrict this to the Byzantine civ, but to the owner of Constantinople - as long as it's Orthodox
Would increase the chance of spreading orthodoxy, and decrease the chance of spreading catholicism

 

[The Flame8]

I agree with absinthered completely!

 

[MrBanana]

I think it'd be interesting if a Protestant nation could capture Rome. You couldm't raze it or remove Catholicism, but you could still invade. However, prepare for Catholic nations to dogpile.

It'd make Venice fun to play.

 

[Spirictum]

If Byzantium gets the possibility of owning Rome, then I'll surely play with them until I get all of the Roman Empire extension before UHV3. A dream coming true.

I remember my first (historical victory) successful attempts with them, my evolving timeline would be like this:
1st - All Anatolia, Greece and its isles, plus some vassals
2nd - All Anatolia, Greece, its isles, Macedonia and Bulgaria, plus some vassals
3rd - All Anatolia, Greece, its isles, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Serbia, Mid East, Egypt, Cyrenaica and Cyprus, plus some vassals
4th (Augustus Caesar Score Beta 13) - All Anatolia, Greece, its isles, Bulgaria, Hungary, Iugoslavia, Italy (except Rome of course), Sicily, Provence, Mid East, Cyprus, All North Africa (up to Gibraltar straight), Crimea and Kiev, no vassals
5th (first attempt at RFCE 1.0) - All Anatolia, Greece, its isles, Bulgaria, Iugoslavia (except Serbia), Italy (except Naples and Rome), Provence, Tolosa, Lyon, Catalonia, Aragon, Navarre, Andalusia, Mid East, Cyprus and All North Africa (up to Tetouan), one vassal.

When possible my aim will be:
All Anatolia, Greece, Hungary (except Upper Hungary), Austria, Iugoslavia, Italy, France, Saxony, Franconia, Flanders, All Iberia, Great Britain (except Scotland), Mid East, All North Africa and All Mediterranean Isles, max number of vassals.

The only thing that can stop me is winning by Domination before completing it. I hope that these plans to change the Papal States go on and allow the recreation of the Roman Empire.

 

[Civciv5]

I support a playable Papal States and I like the idea in the original post.
You should be able to declare war on the Pope with a large penalty with Catholic civs -5 relation and no penalty for non-Catholic civs.
When you conquer Rome,there will be a message like:"The Pope begs for mercy,he offers 5000 gold pieces in return for Rome,refusal will lead to war with all catholic nations that are at least pleased with the Pope".

 

[deadeye943]

I like Absinthered's idea better just because I don't think the papal states should ever be owned by another player. This will remove the whole papal politics in Europe from the game, thus removing some of the fun. The only civ that should be allowed to control rome is Byzantium for their UHV. The entire UHV should be to conquer naples (or whatever that territory with that city is), Latium, and Tuscany. It's much more challenging than being the richest empire in the world.

 

[stolenrays]

Maybe there could be a project where the Pope declares himself the Roman Emperor.

 

[constantinople]

Maybe there could be a project where the Pope declares himself the Roman Emperor.

What do you mean, are you saying after a certain amount of time, the Pope takes over as HRE? Or do you mean the Pope should be able to run in the HRE elections?

 

[stolenrays]

I was refering to the Donation of Constantine kind of in jest. Anyway, maybe the Project could imrpove relations with Christian Leaders, the rest of the old Roman Empire, etc or even have some of the lands succeede.

 

[ezzlar]

Whats the point in being able to capture a pop 3 city with 2 archers? And all catholics declaring war is something that happens when you declare war. So: Cog with a few knights, declare war, capture on same turn, win huge bonus of some kind. Deal with angry catholics on the other side of the map...

 

[constantinople]

Yes, that sounds like a fair project. A result would be the player gets a diplomatic boost with the Pope and pious Catholic leaders.