swordspider
Dread Multiplayer
Ok so play tested the new patch (especially in multiplayer) and it is WAY different. Here are some important observations. First, I want to give props to radek12345 for letting me army test his Civ and for him doing a very good job defending. These are just my initial observations that seemed to be pretty weighty.
YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM... FIGHT!
Holy Nerfed horses batman! They took the most overpowered unit in the game and turned it into... wait for it... YES, the most UNDERpowered unit in the game. The Horsemen are now just glorified scouts. They are great for quick missions and for fighting off barbs still... but if you bring your cavalry up against a real opponent, your horses are toast. Spearmen crush them. 'Attacking' Warriors mangle them (not defending ones though). Swordsmen do training exercises with their parts! Pikes?! Ha, I don't think they even take 1 damage! And don't even THINK ABOUT trying to attack a city, with the -33% penalty PLUS the minus attack, plus the open field bonus gone, (plus the promotion issue I'll talk about below), you're horsies just end up DEAD! Now, I know I may be beating a dead horse here; heh, but unfortunately, I really believe from actual gameplay that they nerfed them too hard and now what you will see is focus just being switched much more in the direction of Swordsmen and Iron. (Lots of threads about the new importance of iron, here's a good one: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=402559)
A 'GENERAL' IS MORE LIKE A 'MAJOR' LETDOWN!
You China peeps out there have to be crying! Sun Tzu would have written the 'Art of Not Warring' if it was like this in the beginning. China took it hard with -10% for their General whereas other civs took a -5%. Sure, a General is still worth carting along... and now with the lack of horsemen effectiveness those 2-tile moving speeds might not be as much of a hassle; BUT, they are nerfed none the less. Where it starts to add up though is the Honor tree has also been nerfed. So when compounded, you have a BIG hit to the 'warmongers' out there. Non-warmongers, REJOICE! Honestly, I like this because I think the % bonuses were too high, but you need to know how different it is if you got used to those high bonuses. You can't just mow down the opponent anymore with brute force and tons of units, it doesn't work. What you will see is a LOT LESS rushers, a LOT MORE 'battles' and a lot fewer 'wars'. There will be minor fringe fighting for territory, but the days of going to war and just plowing through someone are over. Cities feel much stronger and advances feel much slower. You'll unquestionably see games lasting longer before battles, especially in multiplayer.
ATTAAAACK! WAIT NO, WAIT! I'M STUCK! WHAT? OH I HAVE TO PICK A... WAIT, I'M DEAD NOW! WHAT?!?!?!
You want frustrating? I got your frustrating right here. TRY launching a full attack on a human enemy in multiplayer. As soon as you get a promotion STOPPPPPP!!! Stop fighting! Stop Moving! OMG STOP EVERYTHING!!! If you have played, you know what I am talking about, if you haven't here's the issue (this is not an issue in single player though because it is not 'real time'). Yes, you got it, when you get a promotion your unit literally FREEZES until you select a promotion. It can not move, attack, or anything. This is flat out ridiculous in a real time environment because if you are trying to attack but have a promotion, you can't move, and by the time you select the promotion the opponent has killed your unit! (Which effectively defeats the entire concept of 'real time') Likewise, if you attack with a unit who has a bonus to move after attacking (aka uber-nerfed-horsemen) and you attack and then try to run away real quick, it doesn't work if you get promoted and that weak unit then dies (effectively eliminating all purpose of the 'attack and run' bonus it gets). IN single player, this is not issue because the computer is not attacking you back, but in multi, this is flat out ridiculous. I understand *why* they did it, to force you to select the promotion and not stack 20 healings on one unit, but whoever ran the code forgot about the fact that they were promoting 'real-time' games and this actually heavily weakens the battle concept of the game. I suppose over time we will all have to adapt, but the base concept is flawed. This could be exploited though because an attacker that is smart can attack a defender (the defender then gets a promotion and can't counter attack) and it gives the attacker a second shot at the defender's unit before he can heal. It works the same way though for the defender, double attacking the attacker though. But that is the exploit I see. The fix is easy- you should be able to 'move' your unit the same turn and just get the promotion notification like if you need to select production or research before you can 'end turn'.
I'M A LOT MORE TRADITIONAL NOW, THANK YOU.
If you were confused which social policy route to go before, well sorry it just got worse! Honor tree has been rendered almost obsolete unless you are playing on raging barbs and need extra bonus against them, you're an idiot if you waste your civics there now. Tradition tree has been heavily boosted, can you say +50% capital growth? Sure, that may not seem like a big deal at first, but that is INSANE. That means if you have 10 food, you get 15. If you have 40 food, you get 60... are you seeing my point yet? We're talking an insane bump to your capital (which is always your strongest city anyway). Look at this for proof: A granary gives you +2 food, but if your city is say just a level 4 (which is likely before you even think of building a granary) and you are using 4 tiles with JUST 2 food each (you'll likely have a 3 food tile in there somewhere), well you have 8 total food and by selecting tradition you just went to 12, or +4 (which equates to not one, but TWO free granaries!). This thing just multiplies as your city grows. It is a HUGE deal. Plus, the Monarchy upgrade in tradition gives 1 happiness per 2 population, which is just a way of writing -50% unhappiness from population. THAT is HUGE too! Since population is always your biggest drain on happiness, you could select that upgrade and never have to build a happiness building. Why is that huge? Because those are expensive buildings and you could easily make 2 combat units instead of one of them for the same amount of hammers. I see a Tradition Nerf coming in the next patch or a re-evaluation of the nerfed civics.
BIG CITIES ARE GETTIN' BIGGER QUICKER!
So they really reduced the growth rate needed for larger size cities, and if you comile that with the new tradition upgrade for your capital, that is a big deal. In the 1-5 city population range it doesn't change much at all. In the 6-10 range it makes a decent difference, but in the 11+ range it is huge. (No more 232 turns until city growth! haha). Does this matter much? Uhm, YEAH. Talk about getting megalopolises which were never possible before, let alone how big your capital can get and how fast it can get there. You may actually get into the 20's in a single player game now- but don't be fooled, you still will have to work hard for it, it is just much more attainable!
MORE UNNATURAL NATURAL WONDER BONUSES.
Ok, so now you have new natural wonders with new natural wonder bonuses. Here's the biggest deal about it, they're ridiculous. Are you serious, 500 gold for finding el Dorado? Do you have any idea how unbalanced that is in the beginning of a game?!?! That's flat out buying 2 spears or a coliseum or a swordsman and a worker, etc. They might as well have just said 'pick 2 free units or 5 free city tiles'. If I got it I would feel like I was cheating!!! If you don;t get it, you feel like you are getting shafted! Also, +10 happiness for the Fountain of Youth? Sure you have to build on it to get the bonus, but all you have to do is SPAM a settler over there ASAP and drop on top of it. Despite the unhappiness, you automatically get at least +7 or 8 happiness, the equivalent of building both a circus and a coliseum. The only saving grace is a city built by it becomes the ultimate target. Here's a thread on more unnatural wonder conversations: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=403117.
Anyway, those are my initial observations, feel free to add your own. I will likely add some more in the next few games as I test out the patch more.
YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM... FIGHT!
Holy Nerfed horses batman! They took the most overpowered unit in the game and turned it into... wait for it... YES, the most UNDERpowered unit in the game. The Horsemen are now just glorified scouts. They are great for quick missions and for fighting off barbs still... but if you bring your cavalry up against a real opponent, your horses are toast. Spearmen crush them. 'Attacking' Warriors mangle them (not defending ones though). Swordsmen do training exercises with their parts! Pikes?! Ha, I don't think they even take 1 damage! And don't even THINK ABOUT trying to attack a city, with the -33% penalty PLUS the minus attack, plus the open field bonus gone, (plus the promotion issue I'll talk about below), you're horsies just end up DEAD! Now, I know I may be beating a dead horse here; heh, but unfortunately, I really believe from actual gameplay that they nerfed them too hard and now what you will see is focus just being switched much more in the direction of Swordsmen and Iron. (Lots of threads about the new importance of iron, here's a good one: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=402559)
A 'GENERAL' IS MORE LIKE A 'MAJOR' LETDOWN!
You China peeps out there have to be crying! Sun Tzu would have written the 'Art of Not Warring' if it was like this in the beginning. China took it hard with -10% for their General whereas other civs took a -5%. Sure, a General is still worth carting along... and now with the lack of horsemen effectiveness those 2-tile moving speeds might not be as much of a hassle; BUT, they are nerfed none the less. Where it starts to add up though is the Honor tree has also been nerfed. So when compounded, you have a BIG hit to the 'warmongers' out there. Non-warmongers, REJOICE! Honestly, I like this because I think the % bonuses were too high, but you need to know how different it is if you got used to those high bonuses. You can't just mow down the opponent anymore with brute force and tons of units, it doesn't work. What you will see is a LOT LESS rushers, a LOT MORE 'battles' and a lot fewer 'wars'. There will be minor fringe fighting for territory, but the days of going to war and just plowing through someone are over. Cities feel much stronger and advances feel much slower. You'll unquestionably see games lasting longer before battles, especially in multiplayer.
ATTAAAACK! WAIT NO, WAIT! I'M STUCK! WHAT? OH I HAVE TO PICK A... WAIT, I'M DEAD NOW! WHAT?!?!?!
You want frustrating? I got your frustrating right here. TRY launching a full attack on a human enemy in multiplayer. As soon as you get a promotion STOPPPPPP!!! Stop fighting! Stop Moving! OMG STOP EVERYTHING!!! If you have played, you know what I am talking about, if you haven't here's the issue (this is not an issue in single player though because it is not 'real time'). Yes, you got it, when you get a promotion your unit literally FREEZES until you select a promotion. It can not move, attack, or anything. This is flat out ridiculous in a real time environment because if you are trying to attack but have a promotion, you can't move, and by the time you select the promotion the opponent has killed your unit! (Which effectively defeats the entire concept of 'real time') Likewise, if you attack with a unit who has a bonus to move after attacking (aka uber-nerfed-horsemen) and you attack and then try to run away real quick, it doesn't work if you get promoted and that weak unit then dies (effectively eliminating all purpose of the 'attack and run' bonus it gets). IN single player, this is not issue because the computer is not attacking you back, but in multi, this is flat out ridiculous. I understand *why* they did it, to force you to select the promotion and not stack 20 healings on one unit, but whoever ran the code forgot about the fact that they were promoting 'real-time' games and this actually heavily weakens the battle concept of the game. I suppose over time we will all have to adapt, but the base concept is flawed. This could be exploited though because an attacker that is smart can attack a defender (the defender then gets a promotion and can't counter attack) and it gives the attacker a second shot at the defender's unit before he can heal. It works the same way though for the defender, double attacking the attacker though. But that is the exploit I see. The fix is easy- you should be able to 'move' your unit the same turn and just get the promotion notification like if you need to select production or research before you can 'end turn'.
I'M A LOT MORE TRADITIONAL NOW, THANK YOU.
If you were confused which social policy route to go before, well sorry it just got worse! Honor tree has been rendered almost obsolete unless you are playing on raging barbs and need extra bonus against them, you're an idiot if you waste your civics there now. Tradition tree has been heavily boosted, can you say +50% capital growth? Sure, that may not seem like a big deal at first, but that is INSANE. That means if you have 10 food, you get 15. If you have 40 food, you get 60... are you seeing my point yet? We're talking an insane bump to your capital (which is always your strongest city anyway). Look at this for proof: A granary gives you +2 food, but if your city is say just a level 4 (which is likely before you even think of building a granary) and you are using 4 tiles with JUST 2 food each (you'll likely have a 3 food tile in there somewhere), well you have 8 total food and by selecting tradition you just went to 12, or +4 (which equates to not one, but TWO free granaries!). This thing just multiplies as your city grows. It is a HUGE deal. Plus, the Monarchy upgrade in tradition gives 1 happiness per 2 population, which is just a way of writing -50% unhappiness from population. THAT is HUGE too! Since population is always your biggest drain on happiness, you could select that upgrade and never have to build a happiness building. Why is that huge? Because those are expensive buildings and you could easily make 2 combat units instead of one of them for the same amount of hammers. I see a Tradition Nerf coming in the next patch or a re-evaluation of the nerfed civics.
BIG CITIES ARE GETTIN' BIGGER QUICKER!
So they really reduced the growth rate needed for larger size cities, and if you comile that with the new tradition upgrade for your capital, that is a big deal. In the 1-5 city population range it doesn't change much at all. In the 6-10 range it makes a decent difference, but in the 11+ range it is huge. (No more 232 turns until city growth! haha). Does this matter much? Uhm, YEAH. Talk about getting megalopolises which were never possible before, let alone how big your capital can get and how fast it can get there. You may actually get into the 20's in a single player game now- but don't be fooled, you still will have to work hard for it, it is just much more attainable!
MORE UNNATURAL NATURAL WONDER BONUSES.
Ok, so now you have new natural wonders with new natural wonder bonuses. Here's the biggest deal about it, they're ridiculous. Are you serious, 500 gold for finding el Dorado? Do you have any idea how unbalanced that is in the beginning of a game?!?! That's flat out buying 2 spears or a coliseum or a swordsman and a worker, etc. They might as well have just said 'pick 2 free units or 5 free city tiles'. If I got it I would feel like I was cheating!!! If you don;t get it, you feel like you are getting shafted! Also, +10 happiness for the Fountain of Youth? Sure you have to build on it to get the bonus, but all you have to do is SPAM a settler over there ASAP and drop on top of it. Despite the unhappiness, you automatically get at least +7 or 8 happiness, the equivalent of building both a circus and a coliseum. The only saving grace is a city built by it becomes the ultimate target. Here's a thread on more unnatural wonder conversations: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=403117.
Anyway, those are my initial observations, feel free to add your own. I will likely add some more in the next few games as I test out the patch more.
