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New Portugal Mod (In Development)

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Creation & Customization' started by jaldaen, Oct 18, 2008.

  1. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    From what I have read, it seems the Portuguese empire in it's early days was quite important, but more of an empire over water than over land. I'll post a map of the early empire (actually, it has the other powers' colonial empires too):



    It is an old map though, so it's historical accuracy might not be as good as modern maps.
     
  2. metaller

    metaller Chieftain

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    Nice :)

    This map its about a treat "Tratado de Tordesilhas" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tordesillas Portugal had with Spain. You see 4 lines there they were made to divide the world with each other a part to Portugal and a part to Spain. The first agreament that was made were the lines with the long slashes it englob a little from brasil to the end of australia, note that this agreament was made when no one knowed how was the world (america wasnt discovered yet... but africa they did know its existence). Now ot comes a great mistery the second lines (the short slashes) king of portugal changed the division a few miles to west... some say that he already knowed the existence of brasil and left it top secret this way making this agreament with Spain king. Thats also why Portugal king refused to give one armada to Cristovao Colombo in the search of india (he realy found america :p thats why the natives are called indians hehehehe) and he have to make the request to king of spain.

    So in America Portugal and Spain never went in dispute with territories because it was all agread since the begining :p
     
  3. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    Actually, there was dispute :p But it was mostly later on, when both were interested in dominating the river plate.
     
  4. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    It was indeed and I will be trying to include their other endeavors in my thoughts as I procede. However, one complicating factor, as you mention below, is that most of Portugal's colonies remained so until 1975 and that makes basing a "revolutionary" game difficult for those areas.

    As mentioned before I'm trying to keep to settlement founders/governors and revolutionary leaders, but I'm a bit wary of including any leaders who don't fit within or close to the time period of the game. Even Dom Pedro II is pushing it ;)

    I actually think this is one of the reasons why Portugal is not included in the game. All of its independence events occur after the games intended time frame. Still I think the Portugal civilization is too important to ignore completely and so I'm making some compromises of course ;)

    This is one aspect I'm considering for a trait, but I'll have to see what other ideas I can mine from history.

    Which does complicate matters... at least for a game about independence ;)

    This too is something I though was interesting and another thing that makes moding Portugal so different.

    It has been very interesting to read up on the history it's definately unique and worth keeping in mind as I mod.
     
  5. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    There was a war for independence. Dom Pedro was royalty, but the ones who dictated the power in Portugal were the "liberal" Cortes, established since the Oporto Revolution, and they wouldn't give up Brazil - Portugal's most important dominion. In fact, when the independence was fought for, Brazil was no longer a colony, but a kingdom in it's own right, it was the attempt to recolonize it that made the conflict erupt.

    When the Portuguese court fled from Europe in 1807, with Napoleon's troops on their necks, to the south american possessions of Portugal, Rio de Janeiro became the de facto capital of the empire; the trade routes that previously stopped on Lisbon now stopped on Rio. The king then was John VI, or Dom João VI, the father of Dom Pedro. In 1815, Brazil's status was elevated to that of a kingdom - and then united with Portugal to form the United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and Algarve. However, in 1821, the Oporto revolution erupted, and Dom João was forced to go back to Portugal; troops of Portuguese soldiers stationed in Brazil, transferred by João himself, played a large part in influencing him going back to Europe. In Lisbon, little remained of the absolute power he had previously enjoyed, as the revolution had brought about a constitutional monarchy in which he was heavily restrained by the power of the Cortes. With Portugal devastated because of the Napoleonic wars, having very pressing economic needs, the Cortes started to apply reforms that, in practice, were recolonizing Brazil.
    Dom Pedro, who had remained in Brazil as regent prince, took up the cause of independence, and in 1822 he declared it. He successfully won the battles against the Portuguese troops; the resistance of the Portuguese loyal to the motherland was fiercest in the northeast of Brazil.
     
  6. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    Thanks for the references... I could not find any good accounts of actual battles in my readings although there are references in passing to some occuring. Do you know of any good references for the battles? Thanks ;)
     
  7. metaller

    metaller Chieftain

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    Its hard to say... Some say there were a WAR some historians say that were some battles... I found this page about it http://www.onwar.com/aced/nation/bat/brazil/fbrazil1821b.htm

    But like i said... Portugal didn´t have the manpower to make a large war for the independence... With napolionic wars that make a lot of casualities and with a civil war in our own coutry... Not mentioning that D.Pedro was the son of the king of Portugal that maked portugal divided to fight against brasil :p

    It was the right time to Brasil make the move and with that they prevent a bloodbath ;)
     
  8. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    Thanks for the link... definitely helps. Although reading all of this stuff makes me wonder why Dom Pedro I has the FF trait he has... was he really a great general with the awesome military skills he grants? I'm not really certain he is and think maybe he'd be better served as a leader and find someone else to replace him.
     
  9. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    I don't know how good were his military skills, but there are writings from people that knew him in his youth that say that he was very interested in tactics and military stuff. What is certain is that he was capable of greatly boosting troop morale, as is described during his war against his brother Dom Miguel, usurper of the Portuguese throne.

    After Brazil became independent, the Cortes were greatly demoralized because of the loss of the rich territory. This opened up a window for another of Dom João VI's sons, Miguel, to support the absolutist cause in a move to gain power for himself. But it kind of backfired: Dom João joined the absolutists when the coup was made, becoming the absolutist king again. Years later, Dom João was assassinated from poisoning; it is said that his wife, Dona Carlota Joaquina, was the one who planned his death. Dom Pedro then still emperor of Brazil, was crowned Dom Pedro IV of Portugal - but he soon abdicated in favor of his eldest, but still infant, daughter. She was set to marry his brother, Miguel, who would be regent until she became old enough to rule. However, Dom Miguel dethroned her and became sole monarch of Portugal.
    Pedro tried to get the support of other nations against Miguel's regime, but it was of little use. Seeing his daughter's right to throne being disrespected, and having his popularity in Brazil dwindling, (which was also influenced by his presence in Portuguese affairs, which made the Brazilians fearful that he would reunite the two crowns and Brazil would be recolonized) he resigned as emperor, in favor of his son, who would go on to become Dom Pedro II, and set sail for Europe to fight for his daughter's cause. Although many monarchs were sympathetic to his cause, they wouldn't commit to actually supporting him in overthrowing Miguel. With little help from European monarchs, he prepared to invade Portugal with 7.000 volunteers, against the 80.000 regular soldiers of the Portuguese army (it has to be noted that Pedro then supported and was supported by the liberals of Portugal, against Miguel's absolutists). And it is during this event that it is described that he greatly enhanced the morale of his army by talking with the soldiers individually, helping repair fortifications, etc. But soon, they were is a dismal condition, losing battle after battle. It was then that general Saldanha became prominent, and because of him, Dom Pedro's army scored successive victories, eventually overthrowing Miguel and entering into Lisbon. Soon afterwards, Dom Pedro died of disease, after the long war against his brother.
     
  10. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    So that's where he gets his trait from... not so much from the fight for Brazilian independence, but for his later fight for the throne of Portugal. At least now I can see what Firaxis was basing his ability on... Thanks ;)
     
  11. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    So I think I've settled on three leaders... Mem de Sa (Still considering what to base his abilities on... he was a good governor and effective in dealing with both friendly and hostile natives), Dom Pedro II (education-based since he was renowned for his push for education) and Afonso de Albuquerque (military leader), who conquered and established the Portuguese colonial empire in the Indian ocean. If anyone has any other suggestions for leaders, then feel free to make them as we go forward. I might later add Dom Pedro, but he's a FF right now and I think I'll keep him there.
     
  12. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    I don't know if during the war of independence he actually made a good display of his military skills or not. I just know about those bits of the war in Portugal.

    By the way, having Pedro II education-based a particularly good choice, I think I have read a quote somewhere that spoke of his love for the sciences...
     
  13. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    After doing a lot of reading about the Portuguese I'm inclined to have their Civilization trait be trade related.

    There are a number of different approaches:

    1) Small percentage bonus to all trades (+5, +10, or 20%?).*

    This would represent their trading acumen.

    2) Larger percentage bonus to trade but only with natives (+25% or +50%??).*

    Anyone know what the "prefered" good bonus is for natives? That might be a good starting point to figuring out an appropriate bonus. Also if I was to do this I'd probably pair it with some other bonus toward natives.

    3) Increased production of raw materials (+25%).

    Would be a good way of representing slavery before the choice is made when you make your DoI.

    4) Small gp bonus per turn for docks (+3 gp). Perhaps increasing with the higher level buildings.

    This would be a good way of representing feitorias, and the importance of trading forts for the Portuguese. Only problem is that Brazil was a true colony and not just a series of trading forts like most of the other Portuguese holdings.

    Or...
    5) Something else. If you have any ideas I'm open to hearing them. ;)

    *Smaller percentages might mean an additional benefit.
     
  14. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    So anyone know how to modify the amount of gold you gain from trade?
     
  15. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    I've decided to change my approach for this mod after realizing that I have way too many options available to me as a designer and I need to narrow them down a bit. So here are my new goals:

    1) This Portugal mod is meant to work with vanilla Col2 with the minimum of changes.
    2) Although Portugual's history lends itself to conquest and trade, the Spanish and Dutch already have those niches in this game. So the Portuguese trait needs to be something that allows for a different playing style than the other civs currently allow. This is a compromise between the historical Portugal and what the game needs. If you want to play a conquest-based Portugal or trade-based Portugal, then you can always play the Spanish or Dutch and then choose unrestricted leaders to play with the Portuguese leaders.

    I might add more goals, but these are the big two.

    As for goal #2 here is what is currently available in the game:

    Dutch: Trade-based
    English: Immigration-based
    French: Native-based
    Spanish: Conquest-based

    Portuguese: Exploration-based or something else

    I am leaning toward an exploration-based Civilization for Portugal because they really spearheaded the whole Age of Discovery. They were the first to sail around Africa, to India, and even around the world.

    So the question is what trait can I give the Portuguese in this game to make them the preeminent exploration Civ?
     
  16. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    Okay for now I'm going to be going with the following Portuguese trait:

    Explorers:

    Free Promotions:
    Explorer I = Mounted
    Navigation I = Naval

    Caravel +1 Movement

    The only one I'm a bit worried about is the Explorer I as it will make Portuguese Dragoons pretty nice. If anyone knows how to limit the Promotion to just Scouts, that would solve that issue. Still Explorer I might be okay and certainly fits the Portuguese, especially their entradas and bandeiras.
     
  17. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    I think I've settled on the traits for Mem de Sa:

    Pacifier:

    +10% Str. vs. natives
    +50% Missionary Modifier
    +1 Native Relationship

    Mem de Sa was renowned for pacifying the natives of Brazil and creating a safer environment in there for permanent settlements to take hold. He also encouraged Jesuit missionaries to convert the natives.

    He also did a good job of using the natives against each other... however, I have no idea how I would go about coding that so I'm going with the above three traits.

    If you do have an idea as to how to lessen the cost of bribing natives to go to war with other factions, then please let me know.
     
  18. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    Having the Portuguese be exploration-based is really the way to go. Navigation promotion and the caravel (since it's an early oceanworthy vessel) bonuses are perfect for expressing the Portuguese advantages. But I would take out the land explorer promotion bonus and give them something else related to the sea, they weren't renowned for their exploration of inland territory.
     
  19. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    Thanks for your comments... I mainly added the Explorer I to mimic the bandeiras... but I think your point about them not being any better than others in regards to inland exploration is well taken. However, I do wonder if focusing on sea exploration might be too limited/limiting as a Civilization trait.

    So any suggestions on other exploration-based benefits I might be able to give to the Portuguese? A part of me wants to encourage coastal ports, but I'm not certain how to go about doing this.

    I know you mentioned sugar as being a cash crop the Portuguese were very good at growing, I suppose I could add something it for that, but a part of me is hesitant to add something so specific, especially when people play on random maps.
     
  20. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    Hmm... an exploring bonus for "prospecting" minerals would fit them very well, because of the intensive search for gold and minerals of the bandeiras. But we don't have prospecting in Colonization... So a way to mimic that could be giving them a bonus to production in mineral bonus tiles (for either ore or silver), but not in general mining. I wonder if that's even possible to code in though...
     

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