New Portugese UHV 1

[Bernd-das-Brot]

I love playing the Portugese - building a world wide (trading) empire with a one city civ is really fun - especially as there are many ways to fulfill UHV 2 and 3.

But UHV 1 (having open borders with 14 civs by 1550) is not fun to play. It requires luck (not too much civs collapsing) and very ahistorical tactics, like converting to Islam or changing to ahistorical civics for diplomacy boni.
(see the list below)

Alternatives:

A. Reduce needed open border agreements from 14 to 12. (Should always be doable with a bit care.)

or

B. Found or conquer city in Indonesia by 15xx AD

or

C. Conquer a city in India by 1525-50 AD

or

D. Settle 1-3 GM in Lisboa by 1550-1700 AD

or

E. Build x Feitoras by 16xx AD


Here is a list of the potential partners for open borders:

European - 3 save/2-3 others likely
England - yes
France - yes
HRE - yes
Spain - yes if you declare war on the moors
Vikings - yes if not collapsed
Poland - yes if not conquered by HRE
Italy - yes if spawned
Russia - no (even with favourite civic)

Africa - 2 save
Mali - yes
Congo - yes

America - mostly 0
Inca - if not collapsed
Aztecs - if not collapsed

Near East - 1 save without religion change
Moors - with islam only
Ottomans - with islam only
Mameluks - no, not even with islam
Iran - yes, after 1500 AD

Far East - totally random not that much you can do about it, 2 or 3 are often possible
Mongols - sometimes if not collapsed
China - sometimes if not collapsed
Korea - if not collapsed (rarely survives)
Mughals - maybe
Tibet - if you can make contact
Indonesia - mostly no
Thailand - yes if at war with Khmer and you join it
Khmer - yes if at war with Thailand and you join it
Japan - no

Makes 5/6 from europe, 2 from Africa, 1 from near east and 2/3 from far east that are relatively save to get without luck or ahistorical and unfun tactics. Makes 12 for 14 you need luck and or conversion to islam.

 

[Fresol]

My experience is different from yours. I succeeded 3 times out of 4 for UHV 1 without converting to Islam or anything (can't even do that because I had only Catholicism in my cities).

I can also classify civilizations into several tiers for OB purposes:

First tier: Easy to OB.
Vikings, Poland, England, Holy Rome, Byzatium(regretably they don't live that long), Mali, Congo, Mughal, Iran, Tibet, China. Scrape Byzantium and you have 10. These are the civs that will OB at cautious. For Mali gift a tech to them for OB agreement.

Second tier: OB at pleased and there's a reliable way to get them to be pleased.
Spain, France, Italy. Join the war on Moors for OB with Spain, or give tribute, or vote for them in the Apostolic Palace election. For France the voting or just wait until they get to like you. Italy will like you eventually if you don't try anything funny. Another 3 civs with OB.

Third tier: Reliable mutual war OBs.
Thailand, Mongolia. If you are in time (around 1350 AD) you can DOW Khmer for OB with Thailand. DOW Korea or China(if China won't OB) or even Russia to OB with Mongolia. I'd say at least 1 here.

And we already have 14 OBs in most games.

Fourth tier: Dependent on leader, not always possible.
Indonesia, Turkey, Russia. For Indonesia and Russia, try to send a gift if they don't like you enough in the beginning. If it doesn't work then forget it, look for other opportunities.

And additional Aztec and Inca will capitulate and OB if you conquer them. Could salvage your game if some civilization collapsed prematurely.

In general UHV1 is not that hard. Spanish invasion ruins my games more often than UHV1, and it doesn't happen that often.

 

[catacau]

Give them your World Map and they will OB with you. This works well with Russia, Mongolia, Japan, China...

 

[rmontaruli]

14 Open borders of portuguese is doable.
You have to explore, trade, and chose your alliances.
Inca and aztecs do not collapse if you contact them before other AI and do not conquest them (conquistadores units are useful to defend Brazil)

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

Give them your World Map and they will OB with you. This works well with Russia, Mongolia, Japan, China...

Interesting idea. I always gifted a tech, which added +4 multiplier but was not enough. I wasn't aware that gifting the map could encourage trade.

14 Open borders of portuguese is doable.
You have to explore, trade, and chose your alliances.
Inca and aztecs do not collapse if you contact them before other AI and do not conquest them (conquistadores units are useful to defend Brazil)

This is a possiblity and easily done, but not very historical.

I succeeded 3 times out of 4 for UHV 1 without converting to Islam or anything (can't even do that because I had only Catholicism in my cities).

It is doable no question, alas I would say my quote is 1 out of 2.

Your tiers are not wrong but overly optimistic from my experience.

First tier: Vikings rarely live after the Iran spawn. China more often collapses than not. Makes 8 save instead of ten for me.

Second tier: Italy is conditional, but they mostly exists. Another 3, makes 11.

Third tier: In my last game Mongolia had killed China and vassalized Russia. Mongols can work, but not reliable after my experience. Thailand makes 12 secure.

With the Incans/Atztecs it would still be doable, but not in historical way.

And I would like if you could play the UHistoryV on "normal" in a historic way.

 

[Fresol]

OB with Russia can be quite easy, if you contact them soon enough.

Spoiler :

It's also possible to trade OB Russia for OB Mongolia and Korea.

Spoiler :

Spoiler Indonesia :

With any luck, UHV 1 is not a problem. Though I'm not against changing it to a more interesting one.

In this regent/epic game, I got 14 OBs by 1390 AD. It is an easy setting of course.

Spoiler :

Civs with OB(14): Spain, France, England, Holy Rome, Vikings, Italy, Poland, Russia, Mali, Mughal, Indonesia, China, Tibet(load a unit onto your carrack and unload at China), Aztecs(capitulated).
Civs without OB: Ottomans, Egypt, Moors(crusade), Mongolia, Korea, Japan, Khmer(collapsed too soon), Thailand, Arabia, Congo(just spawned), Inca(at war), Byzantium(dead), Iran(not spawned yet).

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

With any luck, UHV 1 is not a problem.

With LUCK! Exactly that is the problem. Can it be done, definitly! (I have won Portugese UHV even on Paragon.) But not in every game (or at least not without Religion change). So you play an hour and then know that you have to start anew because some civs collapsed. :-(

I think any of these could be more interesting and historic (with balancing, just ideas for now):

Found or conquer city in Indonesia/a city with spices by 15xx AD (need to ship soldiers/settlers to Far East with Carrack)

Conquer a city in India by 1525-50 AD (need to ship soldiers to Far East with Carrack)

Build x Feitoras in Brazil or India or by 16xx (need for tech after Carrack and Feitoria would be more interesting)

Other ideas?

 

[rmontaruli]

With the Incans/Atztecs it would still be doable, but not in historical way.

And I would like if you could play the UHistoryV on "normal" in a historic way.

I was told Germany never conquered England in a historic way.
Indeed it's a UHV.