New promotion line for naval cargo ships

[Nishdog]

I'd like to see a new line of promotions to allow increased cargo capacity. I'd say going up to Cargo IV should be enough with each promotion giving +1 cargo capacity to a ship. With that, you could end up with a Transport holding 8 units like in the older versions of the game

To keep it a bit tougher, perhaps this line should only be available to oil-based units, or maybe the promotions don't become available until a later tech such as Refrigeration. And of course, each unit keeps its own rules on cargo (subs still can only carry certain types of units, Carriers can only hold air units, battleships/etc... can't carry anything).

Any thoughts. I'm not a modder, so if any modders out there are interested in running this promotion line, can you let me know how I can add your updates to my game?

 

[50_dollar_bag]

How does experience help you carry more cargo?

 

[Scramble]

How does experience help you carry more cargo?

Thats a good point. Its easy to forget that this is combat experience or training that gives people the promotions... the units arent themselves upgraded; they just get better at what they do.

Of course, maby the promotion could be one that is given when you build a certain building, or complete a quest. It cannot be given through convential means.

 

[zenspiderz]

How does experience help you carry more cargo?

especially with machine based units (such as most modern units) exp should be taken as not applying specifically to human experience but the innovations and improvments made by the engineers and designers of the machinery in question. For example the operational range promo available to air units clearly represents the modifications made by aeronautical engineers to fuel efficiency, weight to power ratios etc. So i think a cargo capacity promo is not uncalled for.

 

[50_dollar_bag]

especially with machine based units (such as most modern units) exp should be taken as not applying specifically to human experience but the innovations and improvments made by the engineers and designers of the machinery in question. For example the operational range promo available to air units clearly represents the modifications made by aeronautical engineers to fuel efficiency, weight to power ratios etc. So i think a cargo capacity promo is not uncalled for.

That's one way of looking at it I guess. In that case I agree.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

If nothing else, the crew has gotten more expereinced at packing thigs inn tightly. I like it, although perhaps only 2 each giving +50% cargo
.. of course that dpends on what the prerequisites are (I always use 3 promos for movement for Transports, If the +Cargo didn't require any other promotions, then I might say

+40% Cargo Capacity
+30% Cargo Capacity
+30% Cargo Capacity


+1,1,1 for 3s
+1,1,2 for 4s
+2,2,2 for 6s

Make it available with Military Science (Logistics)

 

[50_dollar_bag]

If nothing else, the crew has gotten more expereinced at packing thigs inn tightly.

You mean, like, people?

 

[Evie]

No, but the supplies and equipment that come with the people, freeing up extra room on the ship for more people.

 

[KaytieKat]

Hi

But it would be hard for cargo ships to get that kind of experience without either building tons of galleys and upgrading em or making sure how things like west point and gg instructors or all in coast cities. I mean you really wouldnt want your galleons or transports out attcking stuff just to get experience unless your picking on some backward civ still using triremes or caravals and do you REALLY need more cargo capacity if you THAT far ahead? hehe.

Kaytie

Hmm MAYBE there should be a "diet" promotion or something for other units so they take up less space on the cargo ships and you dont have to send the ships out to try and fight? hehe

 

[Nishdog]

I was looking for more of a GAME-play aspect rather than explaining it in real-life terms. Everything is moddable if somebody's willing to mod it.

How do the Pyramids allow an empire to employ the Universal Suffrage civic when the Pyramids were built by workers most likely very familiar with the term "crack the whip!"? How does a statue of Christ built in Rio de Janeiro (a city riddled with a boat load of crime) cause no anarchy in the GAME of Civ IV??

I guess in real life terms, I'll point to the explanation given by the spider with a REALLY cool avi!

 

[MrTomothy]

How does experience help you carry more cargo?

How does experience give air units more range?

I sort of like this idea, but it might be under-utilized, as transports usually don't get into fights enough for a few promotions. Even with <0.1 odds, you could lose your transport full of tanks to a Galleon.

 

[Nishdog]

Hi

But it would be hard for cargo ships to get that kind of experience without either building tons of galleys and upgrading em or making sure how things like west point and gg instructors or all in coast cities. I mean you really wouldnt want your galleons or transports out attcking stuff just to get experience unless your picking on some backward civ still using triremes or caravals and do you REALLY need more cargo capacity if you THAT far ahead? hehe.

Kaytie

Hmm MAYBE there should be a "diet" promotion or something for other units so they take up less space on the cargo ships and you dont have to send the ships out to try and fight? hehe

A "diet" promotion? I love it!! Maybe to balance out my suggestions, perhaps cargo ships should lose the ability to attack, or give a really nasty handicap like -50% or something like that. Most cargo ships aren't REALLY meant to be attack boats, too, and that's something I don't like about the current game. Either take away their ability to attack, or make them weaker attackers in general. A specific UU that gives a cargo ship better attack ability is fine, but in general, I like playing with a specialized navy...attack boats attack, cargo ships transport cargo; both explore...I guess NOW I'm lying back on that crutch of "reality!"

A transport (strength=16) with attack strength cut in half would be at 8 vs. a frigate (strength=8), giving the frigate a slight advantage due to the terrain defense bonus. A frigate attacking a transport, however, probably wouldn't do too well as the transport's handicap is just on attack, so the newer cargo ship would still be able to defend itself against older ships due to its superior guns.

I guess to explain this in "REALITY" terms, a cargo ship's crew is generally trained on how to transport cargo, including how to defend its cargo from pirates and other hostile forces, whereas a non-cargo ship is trained to execute military operations.

 

[Esckey]

I like this idea, not so much for the transports but more for the carriers. And even then I wouldn't want to see them with 8 units. I think 6 is good enough for both the carrier and the transport

 

[Nishdog]

I like this idea, not so much for the transports but more for the carriers. And even then I wouldn't want to see them with 8 units. I think 6 is good enough for both the carrier and the transport

Works for me...6 is better than 4. And I guess putting 8 tank troops onto a transport would require a REALLY big boat!

 

[50_dollar_bag]

I was looking for more of a GAME-play aspect rather than explaining it in real-life terms. Everything is moddable if somebody's willing to mod it.

How do the Pyramids allow an empire to employ the Universal Suffrage civic when the Pyramids were built by workers most likely very familiar with the term "crack the whip!"? How does a statue of Christ built in Rio de Janeiro (a city riddled with a boat load of crime) cause no anarchy in the GAME of Civ IV??

I guess in real life terms, I'll point to the explanation given by the spider with a REALLY cool avi!

Civ is real-life . Don't try and tell me otherwise.

 

[Nishdog]

Civ is real-life . Don't try and tell me otherwise.

If Civ is real life, America is currently running on:
Hereditary Rule/Universal Suffrage
All legal systems available, including Barbarism
Emancipation (I suppose...I see some Serfdom about, too!)
All economy civics available EXCEPT Environmentalism (yes, some could call me a tree hugger)
Any of the religious civics available EXCEPT Pacifism!

 

[Rusty Edge]

Hi

But it would be hard for cargo ships to get that kind of experience without either building tons of galleys and upgrading em or making sure how things like west point and gg instructors or all in coast cities. I mean you really wouldnt want your galleons or transports out attcking stuff just to get experience unless your picking on some backward civ still using triremes or caravals and do you REALLY need more cargo capacity if you THAT far ahead? hehe.

Kaytie

I've been known to make coastal cities military production centers, to build tons of galleons for amphibious operations, to attack pirates and other sailing ships with empty transports, and to use transports and carriers for combat clean-up just to rack up medic promotions.

But you're right, I'd rather have my eggs in more baskets.

I do ,however, drool at the thought of sending up to 8 enemy modern armor or mech infantry at a time to the bottom of the sea instead of 4.

 

[axident]

I'd still rather promote towards the flanking/speed line, as the limiting factor for me is the speed of the slowest ship--usually the transport ship! So having fewer, fatter, slower transports = worse than having more, smaller-capacity, faster transports. It's already agonizing to wait many turns to ship out to a faraway shore without blowing promotions on cargo upgrades.

Other than that though, good idea!

 

[Nishdog]

I'd still rather promote towards the flanking/speed line, as the limiting factor for me is the speed of the slowest ship--usually the transport ship! So having fewer, fatter, slower transports = worse than having more, smaller-capacity, faster transports. It's already agonizing to wait many turns to ship out to a faraway shore without blowing promotions on cargo upgrades.

Other than that though, good idea!

I guess on that front, I'd probably send out a few transports with the speed promotions to run with my destroyers, and then a few with cargo promotions for massive back-up escorted by battleships!! I tend to match speeds between cargo and escort ships, so I'd plan accordingly. I'd also scout accordingly. If enemy lands are far away, I'd lean towards speed promotions. If they're not too far, might as well send in massive armies at a time. It's about having the option...as long as the AI can balance out and use the options well themselves, it's all good! I figure it'd be a neater feature in multi-player (which I don't do btw) since your enemies can THINK (in theory, anyways)...

 

[peter450]

Sounds a resonable idea, i think the naval promotions are extremely lack lustre tactically speaking compared to the land based units, it's just combat stars and first strikes

Why can there not be naval versions of land unit upgrades like shock, ambush etc

As an example, ships in WW2 travelled in formations for protection, so a formation upgrade (ships only) increasing def by 25% in the open ocean (not shoreline

Ambush (subs only) 50% against all ships except, destroyers, stealth destroyers, works on the attack only

Sonar (25% def vs subs)

You get the idea, not saying the above should be included, there just things off the top of my head, but somthing along the lines to give more tactical variation to the upgrades so you can customise your ships to be strong vs certain units, in much the same way you can for land units with the shock, cover etc upgrades