New question: Has anyone seen any indication of how city flipping will work/loyalty mechanic?

[Vincent_lacruz]

Inferring from what we have not seen, it's unlikely that Loyalty returns. I'd speculate a combination of Happiness (returning to replace Amenities) and Culture will trigger whatever "flipping" mechanics exist, if any.

As with so much, we're waiting until the marketing rollout gets around to this topic.

They already mentionned that happiness will mater both locally and empirewise.

Global happiness will accumulate and trigger events/celebrations, which should prove a good thing.

However, having said that local happiness matters might means effects ranging from lower productivity to maybe flipping. Especially during crisis, where a lot of the crisis card seem to reduce hapiness (which is rather thematic^^), and would point in the direction of city flipping mechanism.

 

[Nikolai II]

However, having said that local happiness matters might means effects ranging from lower productivity to maybe flipping. Especially during crisis, where a lot of the crisis card seem to reduce hapiness (which is rather thematic^^), and would point in the direction of city flipping mechanism.

That is an excellent point.

 

[aieeegrunt]

I hope loyalty or a corresponding mechanic is in 7. I really do not like forward settling.

Yeah, mostly what I'm looking for is to avoid earlier games' annoyance where the computer would plop a city right in the middle if my civ's established territory for no good reason whatsoever.

The primary case for this in 6 I suspect was the terrible design decision to allow the AI to see all resources from the start of the game

So the AI will forward settle some useless dust bowl location on your doorstep because in 200 turns there will be aluminium there.

So they waste a considerable early game investment (a settler) on a location giving no usefull return before the game is already decided

 

[Thormodr]

The primary case for this in 6 I suspect was the terrible design decision to allow the AI to see all resources from the start of the game

So the AI will forward settle some useless dust bowl location on your doorstep because in 200 turns there will be aluminium there.

So they waste a considerable early game investment (a settler) on a location giving no usefull return before the game is already decided

That could be. I remember the AI settling seemingly useless cities in Civ IV, though, as well. I think the AI knowing about future resources has been a thing for a long time.

 

[King Flevance]

The idea of the different ages having an additional unique mechanical "rule" is an interesting idea. I do agree leader traits should not be based on these era specific mechanics as they would be considered weak leaders even if the bonus was strong.

I think in terms of city flipping, culture just always felt wrong or silly to me and loyalty was a better idea. Culture is great for the tourism mechanic. I wouldn't be surprised if they are planning on bringing loyalty back in through an expansion again to help focus on the base game's balance first. Civ 7's revealed mechanic is another very large shift in the franchise (and a new mechanic in TBS genre) and focusing on the core mechanics being implemented well is probably a good idea vs adding too much too soon. I could be wrong and happiness is actually tied to this but I suspect loyalty is going to be tied into an expansion.

 

[Vincent_lacruz]

The idea of the different ages having an additional unique mechanical "rule" is an interesting idea. I do agree leader traits should not be based on these era specific mechanics as they would be considered weak leaders even if the bonus was strong.

I think in terms of city flipping, culture just always felt wrong or silly to me and loyalty was a better idea. Culture is great for the tourism mechanic. I wouldn't be surprised if they are planning on bringing loyalty back in through an expansion again to help focus on the base game's balance first. Civ 7's revealed mechanic is another very large shift in the franchise (and a new mechanic in TBS genre) and focusing on the core mechanics being implemented well is probably a good idea vs adding too much too soon. I could be wrong and happiness is actually tied to this but I suspect loyalty is going to be tied into an expansion.

Civ was always like that, base game having the core mechanisms, with expansions increasing complexity by adding more "profound" mechanisms.

 

[Stid]

Personally I love the idea of the mechanic but it has never been implemented correctly - the last game this was spoiled with a city flipping every c10 turns and putting units in made it go for 12 or whatever it was without you being able to do anything.

They have a chance to implement this based on age this time around quite usefully.

Antiquity - based on happiness but would result in new city states/civil war (not necessarily joining you)

-Exploration - Again looking back historically, could be based on colonies happiness/taxes. See the Americas breaking free from the UK and Spain due to taxes/corruption/lack of representation but they didn't want to join any other country.

Modern era - I think this flip should be based more on the globalisation of culture where you have cities that speak your language, share culture etc could join peacefully or through civil war ie west/east Germany.

The other side of this would be a realistic mechanic for stopping the 'flip', ie bribery, martial law, religious police, local representatives etc all basically coming at a cost so it may be worthwhile to give it up rather than being forced to do so.

 

[JNR13]

I think it would be interesting if towns can be flipped but not cities.

 

[Krikkit1]

I would see a city flip involving
1. requests by the city to become an Independent People
2. then you decide Either
granted peacefully..giving you some initial influence with them
OR
rebel units generated that want to attack the city and liberate it (if they do there will be bad relations between you and the Independent People)

For certain governments/eras/situations peacefully letting go is not an option. (you don’t even get the option)

 

[UWHabs]

Loyalty is an issue that I could definitely see only starting to matter in the 2nd or 3rd age. Antiquity you're just not pushing out far enough, close enough to others, for it to really come into play. And cities (in 6 and before) are still small enough that it really didn't matter.

In the Exploration, that's when you more or less start to run out of space nearby, and settle new colonies. I could see the loyalty in that age be more about being able to settle colonies and keep them. And then in the modern age, I could see loyalty being more locally, as areas of your empire develop other loyalties.