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New Raging Barbarians?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by orgonebox, Jan 24, 2010.

  1. orgonebox

    orgonebox Squidtastic

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    As if it wasn't enough to have the "raging barbarians" setting produce hordes of lizardmen, skeletons, and goblins after turn fifteen or so, now they all have +1 strength. And then the warriors that show up at turn 100 are at strength 4, as are the goblins. And do they bother the AI at all? No. Sorry, but facing 18-25 of these guys a turn, often in stacks of three to five or more, is just too much. Maybe there should be a lots of barbarians option in addition to the insanely strong barbarians that only attack the player option we have now. 4 strength goblins? Come on.
     
  2. King Flevance

    King Flevance Deity

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    I still play raging just fine. I actually like the strength increase as it makes the world grow a bit slower. The only thing I am put off by is raging barbs + barb world = you will be attacked in 5 turns or less by a warrior that has decent odds of winning the fight and ending your game right there. Online, we have to turn off barb world now and just use raging because someone is going to die if not garaunteed.
     
  3. FireBlaze

    FireBlaze King

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    Well. World actually gave me a ridiculous starting advantage one game. Two barbarian cities next to me. Clan casted world spell, moved all the defenders off both cities. Had 3 cities by turn 10.
     
  4. Omsion

    Omsion Chieftain

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    This is kind of weird, actually. In a MP game w/Raging Barbs, I eventually ended up being swarmed from the north by strength 4 warriors (no promotions). Meanwhile, from the east, they were all normal strength. And my roommate to the south also only ran into the normal strength dudes. I'm not quite sure what was going on - maybe spawned barbs are higher strength, ones made by barbarian cities are normal?

    And of course, the OOS stuff is still a massive problem, so we never got to the bottom of it (ie by trying to farm cities).
     
  5. orgonebox

    orgonebox Squidtastic

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    Feh. I think the mod has gone to pot. The AI sucks but only gets by on ridiculous advantages. The barbs are out of control. Why not give them commando and city raiders free to being with also? When I began facing 7 strength combat 2 axemen and lizardmen in addition to Cardith Lorda having nearly every tech in the game by turn 300, I gave up. I can't believe anyone thinks this is still fun.
     
  6. King Flevance

    King Flevance Deity

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    Actually, the goblins are 3 strength you mentioned in your earlier post. (2+1 poison) I have not seen the 4 strength warriors or anything. Alot of stuff seems to have a +1 added in from an outside element namely poison. I have noticed goblins getting a beef but, c'mon I used to take my weak units like scouts out to hunt for goblins specifically until they hit level 4 where they were allowed to kill anything a warrior could. A levl 6-7 scout could kill pretty much anything that came at me that was a natural spawn.

    Skeletons are still chumps as are most of the orc barbs I have ran across. Lizardmen have always been problematic for me.
     
  7. Omsion

    Omsion Chieftain

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    Elemental modifiers show up on hover. Anyway, that's not the source. That game, I was faced with:

    3 Skeletons (+1 Death = 4)
    4 Warriors
    5 Lizardmen

    from the north, compared to bog-average 3 warriors from the east (they might have been produced by the barb city chilling right there).
     
  8. FireBlaze

    FireBlaze King

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    It sounds like you should just move down a difficulty level, or play better.
     
  9. King Flevance

    King Flevance Deity

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    I haven't seen 5 lizardmen or 4 warriors yet. I think a friend of mine saw a 3 warrior with +1 poison but it may have just been a 4 you are talking about. I havent got to deal with any of this yet. My problem has been in the insane numbers. spawn rate maybe? I know on raging barb world its like an endless stream of barbs from turn 1.

    I like it because my friend likes to run around the map early on (before this barb buff) and spread himself thin searching lairs, dungeons, huts, etc. But because of his gimme, gimme, gimme, approach he doesn't want to hold any guys back to defend or something. Maybe 1 warrior per city. So you can imagine how frustrating that is. If he succeeds, he has a HUGE leg up on the world by freebies. If he fails, he dies and it's time to start a new game. He would do this no matter what you said so your only tactic was to do it too and frustrate him when you have to restart or become uber. This barb buff is like a breath of fresh air in our games as he is quite a bit more defensive now as restarting after 20-50 turns every game is not fun.
     
  10. Omsion

    Omsion Chieftain

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    Examples:
    http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4052/barbl.jpg

    Just the turn afterwards, one of the skeletons became Strength 5 (4+1 Death), one of the Lizardmen became strength 6.
    Meanwhile, to the south, there's a stack of str3 warriors from Archeron's city wandering around. So I think built barbs are still normal.

    EDIT: Now getting swarmed with these guys from the north. Ugly.
     
  11. Neomega

    Neomega Deity

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    I think spawned barbs come in pairs. One with low str, one with high str, although they spawn both at low str, and one only gains high str the next turn.

    By turn 300? You sure? I am pretty sure by turn 450 in my games, axemen are still str 6. Another quick speed player on emperor or immortal?


    I think it is still fun. i think it's way better then the mindless free xp that wandered around in earlier versions; turn 150, and str 2 goblins are still prancing around.

    You have to play a few games to get used to the changes. Now, you can't beeline a religion, and think your military will still be top notch. Now you are truly forced to make strategic choices, esp at Deity.
     
  12. Omsion

    Omsion Chieftain

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    The main question I have is why isn't this change in any of the patch notes? When was it introduced? This patch? Is it only for raging barbarian option?

    Wasn't too bad after I got Valin up there to take care of the barbs that slipped by without attacking. It does make things more interesting, that's for sure.
    Though that game died after the other human player crashed, and then kept crashing on reload even going back quite a few turns. On top of OOS. :(
     
  13. autopsy-turvey

    autopsy-turvey Chieftain

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    I play on immortal or deity generally and really enjoy raging barbs, they're free experience for your units and it's great when they mess up one of your neighbors for you. Happened to me last game, I took one hippus city on turn 40 or 50 and that weakened them enough for the barbs to take their other 3.

    You are bad at civ 4, hope this helps
     
  14. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

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    The increasing strength over time effect looks like a minor mess-up in merging Wild Mana.
     
  15. esvath

    esvath Apprentice of Erebus

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    Really? I thought it is a feature. I enjoy that immensely :lol:
     
  16. mcwill123

    mcwill123 Pretender to the Throne

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    I was playing on Emperor, no raging barbs. Had one warrior in my city while training another. I noticed a skeleton approaching and didn't really think anything of it. Turns out it was actually a stack of three! (Quite a surprise.) My warrior was only able to hold off the attack of two of them. So much for that game. :)
     
  17. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Emperor

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    It was, Kael's getting rid of it in the next patch (see the patch "l" notes in the first post of the Bug Thread).
     
  18. Angel-Julia

    Angel-Julia Fall from Heaven2 ROCKS!

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    I quite enjoy it actually. the raging barbs are free exp for the units. with super-powered promotions as they are in FFH2 you soon get a C5 unit with +100% strength that is just harvesting exp from the barbs, and then soon becomes your unstopable axeman that can single-handidly take enemy cities.

    I actually find the game easier with the free exp from raging barbs. the key is you need to have enough military, fight on forested hills etc so that your units live, heal and fight stronger.
     
  19. orgonebox

    orgonebox Squidtastic

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    You're heartily invited to fornicate with yourself until your life ends horribly and in shame. I do not like the new barbarians. I usually play on immortal or emperor on huge maps. The barbs are out of control in that situation. I'm not at all sorry for sounding off, either. I've played civ since it first came out, and I know what I'm doing.

    If either the mods don't like what I say, they can ban me outright and delete my account. Infractions mean nothing.
     
  20. Rystic

    Rystic Turtle Wizard

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    I have to agree here, the barbarians are too damn powerful. Especially now, since they can make their own stacks of doom and don't suicide themselves into my city walls. And it doesn't help starting next to a Goblin Fort, which is essentially an unbreakable barbarian stronghold early on. It stifles expansion, and that's why I play; to build an Empire. I don't really want the first 100-150 turns to be me desperately trying to defend every single tile I've improved. If I did, I would play with Raging Barbarians on. There are lots of times where I'd just try playing civ like normal, and so many barbarians spawned, I'd go into World Builder and remove them.

    I have to say, I love this mod, but the worst thing it did was remove barbarians staying at bay until Orthus spawned. This time is suppose to help players gather their bearings. When players are getting wiped out within in the first thirty turns, you have a problem. If people want this, fine, but it should at the very least be an option, and not forced onto everyone. Also, god forbid you pop a lair, or you'll have a big bad and his four buddies ruin your civilization by turn 15. Is that good gameplay, to create an unstoppable force for the player to deal with? And it's true, you can get stronger units and handle it, but by the time you do lairs aren't really a threat any more.

    Whenever I see a new discussion about it, people seem to want to make the barbarians stronger. I cannot possibly imagine why. From what I see, a number of you play with either Barbarian World, or Raging Barbarians, or both. But most of us don't, and the sheer number of barbarians on Emperor or Immortal makes it almost unplayable without going into World Builder. The barbarians have gone from being a challenge to being downright oppressive.
     

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