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New Sandbox - T27

Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by YossarianLives, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    I updated cav scout's sandbox with all the map info we know through T27. I thought it would be useful in case anyone wanted to test out different dot maps. I'm attaching the T0 save and the T27 save. This is my first attempt at doing anything in WorldBuilder, so expect mistakes, though I tried to clean it up as best as I could.
     

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  2. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Here's my proposal through Turn 43.
    Spoiler :

    We settle City #2 on the River, keep Parkin building cottages, use the 2nd Worker (Azza?) to improve the wheat. BW comes in on T43, and we time it to grow to size 6, swap to Slavery, and 3-pop whip a Settler. Our Warrior will be able to accompany the Settler towards the Gold site (or elsewhere, depending on where Copper is). We can send both Workers towards City 3 at this point and whip a new Worker from City #2 on T44. When Indira gets back to to size 4, we can build a couple Fast Workers while we wait for whip unhappiness to wear off. This is the micro plan highlighted on the spreadsheet.

    Spoiler :
     

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  3. bcool

    bcool Deity

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    I'm not necessarily convinced whipping the settler is the way to go. We can produce a settler T45 I believe if we don't whip (and don't share the corn with the 2nd city). The whip costs us cottage development time and commerce (since we are at 4 pop instead of 5 pop). Yes it is nice to get the settler earlier, but our workers really haven't set up the road or tiles for this city so settling 2 turns earlier doesn't get us that much. (and we probably want to settle with the deer in the BFC and that won't be available until T50)

    I believe your save doesn't follow your micro plan perfectly. The save is a bit worse than the micro implies since your micro shows the wheat farm finished by T43, but it isn't in the save.

    I posted a T43 save with the city settled 1W of the city in the dot map thread for comparison.
     
  4. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Right, micro plan was done from memory after playing. The Wheat farm takes 5 turns total, but I put 4 on the spreadsheet.

    You're right that a whipped Settler would found the city before we're ready to improve it and make it worth having. I just saw that it could be done, and I'm sure other teams will be at 3 cities by T43, and didn't want to see us fall behind the curve. If we don't whip, then we should go straight into the Settler after the second Worker at size 5.
     
  5. grant2004

    grant2004 Citizen

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    I'll have to try out a few things with this latter. I'm a little concerned about not having any new warriors produced before the ~T43 settler. It seems that we'll want to have additional units to go out and meet other teams. Right now we've only got Thunderfall doing this, and it's a game of chance if we'll stumble onto anyone with him, or stumble onto a bear. I think an earlier additional warrior or two would be very helpful for establishing diplomacy, which may in the end be worth delaying a new city a turn or two.
     
  6. bcool

    bcool Deity

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    If we whip the settler then we will have 2 more warriors produced. One from Indira while it grows to 6 in prep for the whip and one from the 2nd city.
     
  7. grant2004

    grant2004 Citizen

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    Both of those warriors appear to not be completed, we only put minimal hammers into them until their cities grow, if I'm reading the micro plan correctly. I wonder if we can fit in a completed warrior after our new settler finishes, and get some of our growth done then before beginning on the worker.
     
  8. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    In my first run-through I focused on food at the expense of production, switching off mines in order to be able to do max whips as soon as possible. As bcool points out, we don't need to whip the settler that early, so we should be able to stay on the mines and complete a couple Warriors before switching to a Settler and Worker. I'll try to play through it again in the next couple days to see how we can improve the micro based on bcool's save and other feedback.
     
  9. bcool

    bcool Deity

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    We can whip out the settler on T43 and produce 2 warriors if you sacrifice the growth of the 2nd city a bit.

    We may not want to whip out the settler on T43. If we don't whip it we will only be able to produce 1 warrior with the 2nd city. Perhaps it makes sense to whip the settler if people agree that we need more warriors asap.
    Perhaps we can balance growth in both cities and produce 2 warriors and whip the settler but perhaps not on T43, but on T44? so we can maximize the overflow for a granary or something else in the capital.
     
  10. bistrita

    bistrita Warlord

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    Fast expansion its not everithing, but keeping expanding its very important so no whip capitol and try to have all flood plains cotaged so we can produce alot of comerce,and for a while we will not need a granary as we will not grow unil we get some happines so better stays at this size producing workers setler and alot of science .

    What if we get third city later?, if we have alredy road to it and at least 2 workers ready to make it useful.

    As i see there is alot of space and after the 4th city the cost will start to be realy high, beter to be prepared and have some real nice hamlets, village at capitol.
     
  11. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Here's a new attempt, through T47 this time. An ill-timed Bandit Event cost me 5:food: in the capital, so Indira grew to size 6 one turn later than it should have. I went one extra turn to take the screenshot in order to show the settled third city. I haven't written out the Micro yet, The highlighted portion of the spreadsheet is the proposed micro plan. I don't have a picture, but basically, I settled City #2 next to cows and finished the road before starting on the Wheat Farm. I still completed BW on T43, but delayed the settler whip until T46 (T47 in the save because of the bad Event), allowing us to have 4 exploring warriors and garrisons for 3 cities before whipping the Settler. We can send out new explorers on T39, T43 and T44. I planted the third city on bcool's green dot. The city is founded the same turn the road to it completes, and then two workers can immediately begin chopping into a monument. This plan also delays our third Worker by a few turns, but overall I'd say this is an improvement.

    Spoiler :

    I still like 3-pop whipping Indira for the Settler. It didn't cost a single turn growing our 2 cottages, and we can quickly grow back working FP cottages and Corn.
     

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  12. bcool

    bcool Deity

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    Here is an alternative...

    I like 3 cottages in the capital (since a cottage is better than a road to our 3rd city). Same commerce bonus plus it grows.

    I think we are better off not whipping the capital.

    If we build a settler, worker, settler (T45), worker (T50), settler (T58)
    working 3 cottages since T46 (4th cottage online T55? maybe)

    We can build warrior, warrior, warrior in the 2nd city. It has 5 warrior by T48 (so less warriors than YossarianLives save). But the 2nd city can be devoted to building warriors (or likely axes soon).

    If we whip the capital down to 3 pop, then we won't be able to build the next settler as quickly nor will it work as many cottages, unless we whip again and overlap the whip unhappiness and further reduce the cottage growth. I think the capital is better off growing its cottages and keeping the corn for the foreseeable future (except 1 turn to get the 2nd city to 2 pop 3 turns earlier).

    Here is a save following the above plan out to T47.

    Also not whipping the capital keeps the research rate up, and gives us a shot to found Hinduism.
     

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  13. bistrita

    bistrita Warlord

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    Why not build another worker before setler for third city , and this way to have all 4 cottages worked, and road builded an instead going politeism research , hunting animal husbadry and this way at turn 50 when the borders pop we can improve the deer and when setle city will have already an improved resource?
     
  14. bcool

    bcool Deity

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    Building settler, worker, worker, settler could easily be better.

    However if Hinduism isn't founded, I think founding a religion is better than hunting and animal handling. We won't have access to the deer until T50 if we settle on my green dot location.

    A religion is +1 :) and basically free monuments.

    Okay if we go settler, worker, worker, settler T50 settler T59

    We can found the 3rd city with road on T51 and we can potentially found hinduism T50. We can get hunting T52 so not much delay on deer for the 3rd city and we can have 4 cottages growing in the capital. The next settler out of the capital would be T59. A bit slower since it is working the cottages faster.

    However with a religion we can grow to 6 potentially. And the religion is really nice because it is like a free monument so we can skip that potentially in the 3rd city.

    I'm not sure how likely it would be to get Hinduism by T50, but it sure would be nice.
     

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  15. talonschild

    talonschild Drive-By NESer

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    Religions is nice. We oughta get one. One question: Supposing Buddhism still isn't founded when we get around to that. Do we still go Poly?
     
  16. bcool

    bcool Deity

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    I think there is strong evidence a team is going for the Oracle and will tech Buddhism in the next 5-10 turns, so Buddhism will definitely be gone.
     
  17. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    In the tests I have run whipping Indira isn't very profitable. Much better to stay at the happy cap and work as many floodplain cottages as possible while producing settlers and workers. Our second city however will be perfect for the whip.

    Also, i would be ok with going for Hinduism after we finish bronze working. We could potentially go Polytheism-> Hunting-> Animal Husbandry.
     
  18. grant2004

    grant2004 Citizen

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    Polytheism sounds like a good idea to me, and after meeting our first neighbor, I'm a little more comfortable with the delay on additional warriors. Using the 2nd city as a warrior pump immediately is a good idea. The T50 religion would give our new southern city the holy site, unless we got the 3rd city out more quickly. The 2nd city as a holy site would be decent, the extra culture might help us grab some southern resources that otherwise wouldn't be worth building an ice city for. Sounds great overall.
     
  19. Bowsling

    Bowsling Deity

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    With RB nearby, we may want to consider researching Bronze working sometime in the near future. War chariots aren't gonna be good all game, and they're going to be itching to make good use of them. Even if we don't intend to build spearmen or axemen, going into slavery will certainly make them thin twice before trying to rush us.
     
  20. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    Yeah, we are teching Bronzeworking right now and I agree it's the right choice.
     

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