New Slinger -> Archer Playtest

[Stalker0]

So finally had some time to play after a long hiatus, so I thought I would finally give the new slinger-> archer a run through. Basically my goal was to see if the old "4 archer kill your nearest neighbor" play was alive and kicking. This was a key question, as one of the main reasons for the change was to provide some early ranged units but prevent that kind of abuse.

I did an emperor game with Japan, Japan is a good authority civ but doesnt' get any real bonuses early, so its a good benchmark civ.

I built a monument and then went straight for slingers. The goal was to get 3-4 slingers, tech to archers, upgrade them all, and go to work.

I built 3 slingers when the tech hit (and took out a couple of barb camps for some early culture), and upgraded all of them. Sent them to the nearest CS which was on the way to the Incan capital near me. Got some production tribute that gave me my 4th archer. By Turn 40 I was on the Incan doorstep and ready for war. By Turn 47...the Incan was slaughtered, easy peesy...they never had a chance.

I healed up and turned my attention to Spain. By Turn 62 I knocked out Barcelona, again easy peesy. By Turn 67 I had gotten two more cities (one from a built settler, one from the imperium policy) so now had a solid 5 city positon.

Madrid would prove a bit tougher, as now there were spears on deck. But I had rivers and high ground, and the spears couldn't engage the archers. I made a mistake and lost my 1 warrior, otherwise I probably would have had Madrid in the bag by turn 75, it took me till turn 90 just because I had to resend a new warrior out there. But its Turn 90 and I have 2 civs in the ground.


So....yeah the rush seems very alive and well. While this new archer takes a bit longer than the old one....its honestly not that much longer. Building early in the game is a lot slower than teching, and the upgrade on slingers is so cheap I can afford them easily with a bit of tributing and some barb camp gold. Meanwhile the new archer stats are a lot better than the old one, especially on defense. These archers with proper terrain can actually tank spear hits, while the old archers would just melt to them. Whereas before I basically had a window until spears, in which I had to either commit to cbows or give it up....now I can stay in the fight with archers and keep pressing.

I'll try another round to see if I just got lucky, but right now this rush seems pretty darn unstoppable, ESPECIALLY for the first civ. Killing an entire second civ seems like it should be extremely hard, but it was pretty straightforward.

 

[DeAnno]

I haven't played Emperor in ages so it's hard to evaluate how worrying this is. I wouldn't expect you could do something similar with a rush of Spears promoted to drill though, being able to cripple two civs is pretty extreme.

 

[beginner_]

These archers with proper terrain

Isn't terrain THE main variable if this works or not? too much forest/jungle and lack of hills and it will get very hard to take the city.

 

[pineappledan]

Just to be clear, the goal for the slinger/archer change was to make it so archer rushes could be viable, but also that they would feel fair.

If you can rush them and kill someone that was intended. If a player with spears manages to stop you that is also intended. The addition of the slinger allows us to find what CS/RCS mix is the sweet spot for archers, where someone might be able to cripple/kill a neighbour, but that it still feels like that neighbour could have played better.

So maybe you got a good map roll, and we're mission accomplished? Maybe Archer CS and RCS needs to go down 1 point? Ideally, the CS should be low enough that archers are getting 2 shotted by horses, and 3 shotted by spears with no backup.

 

[Stalker0]

3 shotted by spears with no backup.

3 shotted is too weak imo, as archers get to retailiate as well. Archers frankly should be 1 shotted by spears with really strong flanking, and 2 shotted most of the time if spears are going to be a credible threat.