New Southeast Asian Unit

Well, I was referring to your Spanish "tropical" pikeman https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/spanish-tropical-colonial-soldier.30403/.
As I said above, minimizing the protection of pikemen quite reached the point of complete absence, a quilted unit is a good intermediate option.
Although this particular form of quilting (escapel) is considered borrowed from the Aztecs, in fact, the same thing flourished in the Iberian countries long before Cortes + there were many various figures in soft armor in general (the so-called "dry spears" in England, etc.).
I saw that Bakul had made some Moro warriors wearing compound armor, and as heavy pikemen, you can find them in the Austronesia Unit Pack in RI
Really. The nuance is that the unit consists of figures with different graphics, and the civilopedia shows the unit in ordinary iron armor. It was necessary to watch in the game, yes.
 
Keep making everything! Even if the old files were wrong, they're too beautiful to not be used somewhere :)

Hey, I see that ramzay liked your comment too. I was wanting to ask you both if either of you would be interested in making modern/gunpowder units for the Tamriel civilizations in ramzay's mod.

I'm working on a "world of mythology" mod, and I want to add the Tamriel civs to the regular game. So, it'd be cool to have modern units for the elves, Orcs, Khajit, and Argonians.
 
Keep making everything! Even if the old files were wrong, they're too beautiful to not be used somewhere :)

Hey, I see that ramzay liked your comment too. I was wanting to ask you both if either of you would be interested in making modern/gunpowder units for the Tamriel civilizations in ramzay's mod.

I'm working on a "world of mythology" mod, and I want to add the Tamriel civs to the regular game. So, it'd be cool to have modern units for the elves, Orcs, Khajit, and Argonians.
Hello man, unfortunately I don't have time lately, the files uploaded recently are all copies of the action that was completed a few months ago :eek2:
I can't guarantee that I'll be involved in a new project
 
Hi guys, I met a real thai historian

Cool :)
And yes, could you advise any adequate Internet sites on the armies of Thailand and Indochina in general? If, of course, it's not too much trouble for you. The language does not matter, automatic translators work well.
As far as I understand, the "popular" sources did not satisfy the expert. While if there are a couple more Russian scientific papers on Vietnamese cold weapons, then the rest...
 
Cool :)
And yes, could you advise any adequate Internet sites on the armies of Thailand and Indochina in general? If, of course, it's not too much trouble for you. The language does not matter, automatic translators work well.
As far as I understand, the "popular" sources did not satisfy the expert. While if there are a couple more Russian scientific papers on Vietnamese cold weapons, then the rest...
hi man, I found these sites while trying to search for Thai metal armor physical objects, people involved in the discussion mentioned a lot of things ... Including the ambiguous hint of Thai filmmakers that Thailand has European-style metal armor, thus misleading many people .... Unfortunately, there is no actual evidence and photos.:lol:
 
Thank you very much.:)
hi man, I found these sites while trying to search for Thai metal armor physical objects, people involved in the discussion mentioned a lot of things ... Unfortunately, there is no actual evidence and photos

Well... After reading the discussion, I can add that some "chain mail" (!) mentions the British emissary in Siam (Low). It's 1824, but it's unlikely that armor suddenly became more popular in the 19th century. In «Heath Ian. Burma and Indo-China armies of the XIX century» it is believed that it was something scaly/lamellar of the Khmer (?) sample.

But it seems to me quite likely that we are talking about Chinese armor ordered in 1786 or around this time (text at the third link). At the same time, the nuance is that the second half of the 18th century is characterized by the maximum spread in the Qing army... real chain mail. Obviously, under the influence of the Dzungars.

In general, it is VERY far from the fact that Thais wore chain mail (or armor based on them), but technically it is possible.
 
Thank you very much.:)


Well... After reading the discussion, I can add that some "chain mail" (!) mentions the British emissary in Siam (Low). It's 1824, but it's unlikely that armor suddenly became more popular in the 19th century. In «Heath Ian. Burma and Indo-China armies of the XIX century» it is believed that it was something scaly/lamellar of the Khmer (?) sample.

But it seems to me quite likely that we are talking about Chinese armor ordered in 1786 or around this time (text at the third link). At the same time, the nuance is that the second half of the 18th century is characterized by the maximum spread in the Qing army... real chain mail. Obviously, under the influence of the Dzungars.

In general, it is VERY far from the fact that Thais wore chain mail (or armor based on them), but technically it is possible.
Yes, that's another takeaway from me. Some non-official Chinese books (such as 台湾志略) also mention that Tungning exported armor to Siam. But the "chain mail" that appeared in Thailand does not seem to be real "chain mail", it is just a cloth that imitates Chinese chain mail (shanwenkai), a kind of textile with the chain and the head of the beast on it are painted patterns, not real metal, it is called เสนากุฎ in Thailand
The British got some samples from the Indian market, which they called Su'a Senakut
 

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imitates Chinese chain mail (shanwenkai), a kind of textile with the chain and the head of the beast on it are painted patterns, not real metal,

Yes, as you know, similar imitations of the "armor of the hieroglyph of the mountain" were used in China itself.
The nuance is that along with Chinese and Central Asian models of armor in the Qing period, classic chain mail of the West Asian/European pattern was also used.
Very limited, but still yes, and the maximum distribution falls just in the second half of the 18th century.
At the same time, in the conditions of Thailand, the use of classical chain mail makes some sense.
In a hot and humid climate, armor consisting of plates riveted to a fabric base or bound with belts/silk cords will have obvious problems. The same Japanese encountered them, although the conditions on the islands are by no means Thai.
Trite, having collected water, such armor will immediately become heavier, significantly lose mobility due to swollen belts / cords / fabric. At the same time, silk noticeably loses its strength when wet, and the combination of humidity with high temperature is very problematic for the skin. In addition to a direct threat, this means that the skin needs to be dried with precautions.If a Thai man just casually hung his armor next to the fire, he could have big problems. At the same time, in the "military-tropical" reality, you will have to dry often and quickly.
Further, in the tropics, there are especially many small lovers of quickly eating wet organic matter. That is, in the long term, such armor will be short-lived and they will have to be constantly repaired.
In such a context, pure metal armor will have obvious advantages.
At the same time, the iron armor will also desperately rust. The way out is to use brass, etc.
In general, in the end we come to something in the style of Moro armor – based on classic chain mail, but made of brass / bronze. Usually, the use of such materials is interpreted as a consequence of a lack of iron, but ... Even if it is a matter of iron deficiency, the advantages of such an approach in the humid tropics were still obvious.
At the same time, in 1786, Thailand bought 2000 brass armor, which is just atypical for China itself. Which, on the one hand, indicates a desire to have specialized, tropical armor, on the other – a possible reference to the experience of other users of stainless armor. And they, as mentioned above, focused on West Asian/Indian models with classic chain mail.
In general, the theory is not just shaky, but extremely dubious. Among other things, we do not even know how the plates were fastened in the "armor of the hieroglyph of the mountain", while there are Thai images of "mountain" armor, but chain mail is not. But the use of classical chain mail in Thailand was theoretically possible, in my opinion.
Naturally, this has nothing to do with the creation of units. It's just a national Russian entertainment - "come up with a strange theory on the weekend" :D.
 
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some realism late cambodia soldier
 

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maybe the palace guard
 

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By the way, I poked a little into the Spanish Internet, and found out such details about Spanish pikemen in quiltes / without metal armor. So, the Spaniards distinguished 1. pikemen in cuirass - coseletes 2. piqueros secas - pikemen without (metal) protection (put in the back rows).
At the same time, as I said, there were quite a lot of them not only in the colonies, but also in Europe. Tercio, 1534: 8 companies of pikemen, 2 companies of arquebusiers. Pikemen company: 11 officers, 135 pikemen with protection, 44 pikemen without protection, 90 arquebusiers and 20 Musketeers. Arquebusiers: 11 officers, 35 unprotected pikemen, 239 arquebusiers and 15 Musketeers.
Moreover, the proportion is amazingly similar, for example, to... the Russian cavalry of the same period, where riders in quilts are also about a third. In general, it looks like a specific feature of countries with an average level of development of "industry" and a deficit demography.
 
By the way, I poked a little into the Spanish Internet, and found out such details about Spanish pikemen in quiltes / without metal armor. So, the Spaniards distinguished 1. pikemen in cuirass - coseletes 2. piqueros secas - pikemen without (metal) protection (put in the back rows).
At the same time, as I said, there were quite a lot of them not only in the colonies, but also in Europe. Tercio, 1534: 8 companies of pikemen, 2 companies of arquebusiers. Pikemen company: 11 officers, 135 pikemen with protection, 44 pikemen without protection, 90 arquebusiers and 20 Musketeers. Arquebusiers: 11 officers, 35 unprotected pikemen, 239 arquebusiers and 15 Musketeers.
Moreover, the proportion is amazingly similar, for example, to... the Russian cavalry of the same period, where riders in quilts are also about a third. In general, it looks like a specific feature of countries with an average level of development of "industry" and a deficit demography.
As far as I know, the Spaniards canceled the picas secas after the 1630s. Have you seen a better coseletes model in another game or mod?
 
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Thanks for explanation. :goodjob:
I am thinking about using it as a unique Unit for Siam of Khmeer, that's why I asked. I did not want to use a "fantasy" unit for it - but it seems to be real.
Thank you,Kathy。Your work led me to create this Burmese musket elephant
 
As far as I know, the Spaniards canceled the picas secas after the 1630s.
Well, Spain has never had enough money to put its ideas into practice quickly. Therefore, for some time the "quilts" were still in service. As for your Scots. Do not take this as a criticism, but the length of a couple of human heights for a heavy halberd/lochaber axe is very little realistic, historical axes were about 6 feet (c) long.
 
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