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New Start

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall Modmods' started by Zagoroth, Aug 19, 2009.

?

What new start would you want to play?

Poll closed Sep 28, 2009.
  1. An ancient start: to make the starting locations of notably China and India more historical.

    4 vote(s)
    8.2%
  2. A slightly later start for the Phoenicians: Replaces Carthage with the Phoenicians.

    2 vote(s)
    4.1%
  3. A Classical start: Makes Rome spawn next to stronger Carthage and Greece.

    5 vote(s)
    10.2%
  4. A Medieval start: Either after the fall of Rome or before the first crusade.

    2 vote(s)
    4.1%
  5. An Industrial Revolution/ Scientific Revolution start

    21 vote(s)
    42.9%
  6. An alternate history scenario: If chosen the specific alternate history would be discussed.

    15 vote(s)
    30.6%
  1. Zagoroth

    Zagoroth Prince

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    This is a continuation of the thread started in the standard RFC section of this forum. Kairob has already created a 1500 C.E. scenario. I will post a new poll up which will no longer include the colonization option. However I will now include a alternate history scenario.

    Chances are this new scenario might play the best as the main civilization that would be edited would be played by myself. This would make it easier to start up playing as them, as opposed to a bunch of civilization I had just modded using World Builder. However the other options can be equally as fun to play.

    The options are an ancient start which modifies the names and locations of the starting civilizations to be more historical, a slightly later start replacing the Carthaginians as the Phoenicians, a classical start which has Rome spawn near a stronger Carthage and a stronger Greece, a medieval start either right after the Western Roman Empire fell or one slightly nearer to the first crusade, an Industrial Revolution/ Scientific Revolution start (which would most likely be the hardest and most buggy since there would be huge European empires about to collapse,) and lastly an alternate history scenario.

    Ideas that come to my mind for the alternate history scenario would be a Roman Empire lasting beyond its fall, an Islamic Empire expanding further into Europe, a Mayan colonial power over a technologically backwards Europe, China as a colonial power in Western North America, and other possibilities.
     
  2. kairob

    kairob Biohazard

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    The most interesting of the alt-history scenarios you mentioned would be the 'Rome never falling' Scenario. :)

    p.s. since when was I called 'someone'?
     
  3. Zagoroth

    Zagoroth Prince

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    Sorry, my internet was acting up so I did not take the time to check to make sure who made the scenario. I guess I will edit my post now.
     
  4. kairob

    kairob Biohazard

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    Don't worry about it, I was only being jovial, I guess I should have put a winking smiley there to indicate it. Please have two now as a way of making up for it. ;);)
     
  5. steampunk1880

    steampunk1880 Prince

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    Kim Stanley Robinson's Years of Rice and Salt posits the black plage mutating and killing 99 percent of Europe shortly before the Mongols arrived. As a consequence Europe became colonized by a half dozen Islamic Sultanates, Industrialization begins in India, Japanese diaspora to North America and their subsequent blending with native culture and a 60 year world war is fought between the nations of Islam and an East Asian alliance. An enjoyable book would make an enjoyable scenario, I think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Years_of_Rice_and_Salt
     
  6. Zagoroth

    Zagoroth Prince

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    That is an interesting concept. However I am curios how removing the European nations from the equation makes Japan a colonizing power. Especially since it was the U.S. which forced Japan out of the Shogunate and into the Meiji Restoration. The whole concept is intriguing though. If that were to be a scenario created it would start with the Mongols invading Europe? Mongolia could even collapse and represent the Sultanates, with possibly one major one being playable?

    However considering I will be using World Builder to create these scenarios, unless someone is really good at modding and wants to do it basically alone, they need to be kept somewhat simple. For example, the later the start date the more complicated and buggy the end result will be based on the massive empires the AI control. However if it is begun too early the scenario does not shape itself out in the way it was intended.

    Using Years of Rice and Salt as the example, theoretically the start could be Zheng He setting sail for the New World. How would Japan then be provoked to expand? However if the game starts too late there will be collapsed empires everywhere, and the game would end up being less fun. Its a great idea, however only the human player might be able to pull off what is supposed to happen.
     
  7. kairob

    kairob Biohazard

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    This does look like a very interesting alt-history scenario!
     
  8. steampunk1880

    steampunk1880 Prince

    Joined:
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    I recall reading that the Nipponese isolation was ended violently by a Chinese invasion, and refugees took flight across the Pacific to Chinese colonies on the West Coast of Yingzhou and further on to the Haudenosaunee territories in the Northeast where they are warned and, to an extent, prepared to repel Chinese eastward expansion and Dar al-Islam, latecomers to the eastern seaboard. Subjugated Nippon would only later break free from China as a consequence of Instability caused by the 60 year war that also allowed Haudenosaunee alliance on the great plains to remove foreign influence from North Yingzhou.

    As for Firanja (Europe), the Ottoman Sultanate makes an appearance. Also named are Magyaristan in and around Ukraine, States of the Golden Horde analogous to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus and parts of Russia, al-Alemand is in the place of Germany and Poland, Skandistan is guess where, Alpine Emirates is that mess east of Italy, Provincial Taifa States make up France, al-Andalus encompases Iberia and the Keltic Sultanate tries to oversee those weird white-skinned red-haired people that live mostly in small tribes in the remote regions of those islands off the north western coast of Firanja.

    Jeez. Yanno, its such an involved book that to summarize what happens where would require taking careful notes as you read through it and then using them to type up a good sized essay.

    Or, you could find a decent timeline http://www.geocities.com/heiankyo794/timeline.html

    http://ksrwiki.philosophicalzombie.net/wiki/The_Years_Of_Rice_And_Salt#Book_10_:_The_First_Years
     
  9. Lean

    Lean Prince

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    A late(ish) senario, alt history, of course! Based on Harry Turtledove's Southern Voctory timeline, where the South wins the Civil war in '62. Thus, Mexico stays under Hapsburg rule, France and Britain align themselves with the CSA, while the USA goes toward Germany, Austria-Hungary, and the Ottomans. Here's a link to the background information, and everything needed if this were to fly. I suppose the start year could be 1863.

    Here's hoping,

    Lean
     
  10. ZachScape

    ZachScape King

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    I think that would be kinda hard considering how close Richmond was to Washington with this map. It's even an issue in the book (I'm reading HFR now, lol).
    Cool... but hard.
     
  11. Lean

    Lean Prince

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    Yeah it'll probibly be way too hard, but I just figured I'd throw it out there. And horray for another reader! I'm not alone! I think if the map was bigger (GEM size) Then it'll be do-able without cramped cities and such.

    Maybe a WW1 where the US stays neutral? Don't know, just throwing suggestions out there.
     
  12. Zagoroth

    Zagoroth Prince

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    Just to bump this thread and inform people, unless another option wins by a notable margin I will pick the alternate history scenario. This would feel the least bland and provides a greater range of creativity, and fun.
     
  13. Cethegus

    Cethegus King

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    The extinct Europe and stronger Rome scenarios sound plausible to me. You have my support. :)
     
  14. T_F

    T_F Reynardine the Great

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    Indeed, both scenarios do sound interesting. How would you get Rome to last longer (i.e. what would you change to get this, besides just 'Rome lasts longer')?
     
  15. Rallas

    Rallas Chieftain

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    Well we could have a world where Rome never fell so Europe remains under the control of Rome. Arabia might have never gotten the chance to create an empire. Rome could begin expanding into what is the territory of India and China forcing an alliance of some sort between the two(in other words they start off at war with Rome.)

    Another option is to have it begin after Rome split into Western and Eastern and have the main fighting be between the two Roman superpowers with Rome controlling everything West of Poland while Byzantine controls everything from Poland to where Asia begins in Russia.
     
  16. kairob

    kairob Biohazard

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    You have to choose your Divergence point, I would personally suggest Attila's birth. If we had him die in childbirth then the Germanic hordes would not have been forced to migrate into Roman territory.

    This would have meant that the Roman Empire would have remained intact by the time the Arabs and Turks start to press onto their borders, as Rome is larger it might be able to resist the attacks that the eastern half could not, depending on how good the player is.

    Russia, I think, should still be in the game however, as Scandinavia was relatively unaffected by Romes rise or fall the Varangians would presumably still have migrated and settled Kiev. Also as the Euros are (presumably) being removed they could be replaced by other civs. How Africa, Australia or the Americas would have developed without European interference could be just as interesting as the power politics in Euroasia.

    Also what start date are you thinking of using?
     
  17. Rallas

    Rallas Chieftain

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    I was thinking around the 1400-1500s that way it's not too modern but at the same time we can see how Rome could have advanced.

    I like the idea of having the divergent point being around when Attila died.

    As for the New World and Africa i have to think about the options right now since there are so many different situations.
     
  18. T_F

    T_F Reynardine the Great

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    Attila's death is plausible - it does help remove barbarian pressure from Rome - but with the chaos that Rome had anyway without the barbarians, it seems like they only sped up its demise, they didn't actually cause it. It seems to me that without major, major government reforms Rome was doomed from quite an early point in the Empire.
     
  19. Rallas

    Rallas Chieftain

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    If we go with Attila's death by the way does that mean Rome will be split in Western and Eastern allowing for two people to play different civs?
     
  20. BurnEmDown

    BurnEmDown Emperor

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    Then in this alt-history scenario, not only did Attila died at birth, but a wise and powerful man in Rome rose as the emperor and established a democracy, he also further split the Western Roman Empire into several states, Gaulia, Iberia, Brittania, Italia, Tripolitana, and Germania, these states are self-governed but in the game they would be represented by the same civ, as they all have the same laws and world views. The Eastern Roman Empire however remained a centeralized state, with it's mega-capital of Constantinople, still ruled by Emperors. Its power however is even to the Western Roman Republic (maybe it changed it's name to the Western Republic?) and the two empires kept their good relations, despite their differents, (or maybe not?...).
     

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