New Succession Game: Training Day

[ChrTh]

I've decided to start up a SG that would be mostly for newbies, in the hopes that they'll stop reading and start playing (or at least keep reading and playing). A lot of us newbies are intimidated by the skill level of the RBD and LK games, and while we sometimes try to play an open game, we usually hope that at best we won't screw up too bad.

My goal here is for 6 players; two vets and four rookies (including myself). We're going to play at Regent level, but I hope that doesn't scare you off. I'm thinking Standard Map, and one opponent fewer than the normal. We'll decide among ourselves what civilization to play.

The goal isn't to win; it's to learn. I hope that it isn't asking too much of the vets, but I'm hoping that they'll provide plenty of (constructive) criticism and tips. The rookies should play their full turn without mid-turn advice (No "I'm on my fifth turn and I got a leader, what should I do?" posts), and then afterwards the vets (or even the other rooks) can show what went right and what went wrong.

I was planning the order as Vet-Rook-Rook-Vet-Rook-Rook. The Vets will play 20 turns each and the Rooks will play 10 turns each. If the Vets want we can drop them down to 10 turns once it gets to be the late Industrial Age, as I know the turns get pretty long then.

This game will be lax on the time requirements, simply because I'd prefer a player not to rush through their turn; however, please don't sign up to play if you can't devote time to both playing and discussion. I don't want us to play Hot Potato style here...everyone should be downloading the game after each player finished his or her turn, and there should be at least a day's worth of discussion before we continue on.

I hope the ideal I've sketched out here hasn't turned anyone off to this concept, and I hope some of the vets will take up this challenge.

If you're in, let me know.

 

[Architect]

I'm in. I consider my self a pretty good CIV player, but not of succession games since this would be my first. So call me a rookie for sake of trying to get some real vets in here...

 

[Erik Mesoy]

I won my first Regent game. By being on an island and getting Histographic. I say call me a rookie.

 

[Sullla]

Hmmm...

I like the idea behind this game a lot. There's nothing better about a succession game than players with more experience discussing strategies with those who are new to the game in order to help the team as a whole progress. That being said, I'm not sure if I'm enough of a "veteran" player to help you out here. While I've played in 5 succession games so far and tend to win comfortably on Monarch level games, I don't have any experience at Emperor/Deity level or the almost legendary succession game experience of a LKendter, Sirian, Charis, etc. I do believe I will be in the top 10 for April's GOTM competition (projecting a score of roughly 7000), so maybe that means something.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm interested, but I think I'll bow out if some real veteran players express serious interest in this game. I will definitely be following this game though, and posting comments if not playing.

One final thing: if you have never played a regent level game, this would be an excellent way to get some practice at the difficulty level. I urge cheiftan/warlord players to join this game to get a feeling of what strategies work well when the AI is not resticted in its abilities.

 

[LKendter]

Originally posted by Sullla
Hmmm...

I like the idea behind this game a lot. There's nothing better about a succession game than players with more experience discussing strategies with those who are new to the game in order to help the team as a whole progress. That being said, I'm not sure if I'm enough of a "veteran" player to help you out here. While I've played in 5 succession games so far and tend to win comfortably on Monarch level games, I don't have any experience at Emperor/Deity level or the almost legendary succession game experience of a LKendter, Sirian, Charis, etc. I do believe I will be in the top 10 for April's GOTM competition (projecting a score of roughly 7000), so maybe that means something.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm interested, but I think I'll bow out if some real veteran players express serious interest in this game. I will definitely be following this game though, and posting comments if not playing.

One final thing: if you have never played a regent level game, this would be an excellent way to get some practice at the difficulty level. I urge cheiftan/warlord players to join this game to get a feeling of what strategies work well when the AI is not resticted in its abilities.

Though I must admit - A lot of people haven't believe some of my good war rounds


General Lee #1 rule - I *HATE* non-vet troops.
Even more important starting with 1.17 - vet vs. non-vet has a better chance of retreating.

 

[ChrTh]

Ok, so far we have the Rookie roster as
Architect
Erik Mesoy
Myself

On the Vet side, we have Sullla--unless someone better comes along (Hey, your words, not mine! )

Sullla, if we get two 'better' vets, do you want to play a 'rookie' spot? It might be a good idea for us to have a strong 'rookie' in there as well.


BTW, one thing I would like to clarify. My goal here is to improve the ability of Succession Game rookies, not Civ 3 rookies (although the latter are certainly welcome). SG playing is a different beast, and some of the strategies developed herein, while certainly applicable to stand-alone games, are more appropriate for SGs. For example, building non-vet troops is fine in your own game, but if you do it in a SG with Lee.... :aargh3: :die!: :suicide:



Arch and Eric: Do you have any Civ preferences, like Persia?

 

[Erik Mesoy]

I want someone religious. I would prefer Iroqouis or Egypt, but anybody religious is okay. Should be easy as there are 6 religious civs.

 

[ChrTh]

One last thing:

If there is enough interest, I will get two of these games going at once (I have enough time to orchestrate two). So if the slots here fill up but you're still interested, please indicate so. Thanks

 

[Rain]

I'd be interested in this I dont have a great deal of succesion game experience, but i have played a lot civ with good success up to and including emperor. Not sure which category that puts me in

 

[ChrTh]

Rain, I'd consider you a rookie for the purpose of this training exercise, since I'm looking specifically for SG vets.

But we'll see

 

[Charis]

Good idea, ChrTh!

I'm too behind in my others to join in here, but I did want to "pop in" and wish you guys luck!



I will also say for others wondering about trying an SG, and wondering if they're good enough... DO IT!! Seriously, I think 85% of my Civ3 games have been SGs, and in my first one I was a civ 3 rookie (Civ2 pro, but that's a loooong time ago). There's no better way to learn, and in a game with goals such as this one, it shouldn't be painful -- folks are all out to learn.

Charis

 

[Pagan]

I'm a noob. I've been reading these boards for about a month now. I'm always intrested in joining in but like you said, never wanted to screw things up. If you have room I'd like to join.

I've beaten the game at warlord which isn't saying much. Best civs are Japan and India. If you're full no biggy. I'll just see how you guys do and you can throw me as a DH.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

I ask for a Rel civ, like Egypt or Iroquois. Pagan wants Japan or India. I don't think India, their war elephants are nearly useless. You should have iron. I have a feeling that the GOTM map was edited... lets go for japan, shall we?

Good timing for golden age.(Leo, bach, sistine, suns, maybe even Copernicus if we wait a little.)

LETS DO IT!

 

[Pagan]

The one thing I love about military civs is the chances of a great leader are greater. I love getting that first army built if no wonders are needed then just make the acadamy and hero's. By the time Industrial hits I tend to have 5 armys and I'm ready to take down the super-powers.


But it's all up to you guys. I'm here to learn, so I'll try anything. :grad:

 

[Padma]

I would also be interested. I have been playing 2 SG's (B3-Literary English and Kefka's Random). I guess that put's me as a more-or-less SG rookie. I'm definitely still learning! Lee (LKendter) has joined the B3 game, and has pointed out some ... erm, 'deficiencies' in my most recent turn.

One thing, I'm much more a 'builder' than a 'warrior'. Not saying I won't/can't wage war, it is just sub-optimal for me. That said, I definitely prefer Industrious civs, usually in conjunction with Religious or Scientific.

 

[ChrTh]

Ok, it looks like we have enough rookie interest here to generate two games, so I'm going to wait for a few more "me too!"s before I get this thing going.

A lot of us rooks want to play a certain way, and I'm wondering if we should do the opposite. For a builder, playing a game that emphasizes war teaches a lot, and vice versa. Also, favoring a specific Civ (in my case, Persia) becomes a crutch and more or less renders you ineffective for other Civs (or Jason forbid you don't find any Iron nearby!). We're trying to build stronger SGers here, and flexibility is the number one trait.

We do need more vet interest, though. We have Sullla, but not getting Charis is a blow (since he writes very nice, illuminating turn summaries )...maybe I'll start trolling the RBD threads

 

[Ihmotep]

I'll play....I need the experience (noooob!)

can we use the world map?

 

[rus_tenisist]

i am in
i am a real newb and never played a succecion game ( so u might not wanna take me ). but i promise that before doing any big moves i will always consult on forum and i won't ruin the game

i think world map is good and how about playing as Russians and going for spave victory?:

 

[Sullla]

ChrTh,

Judging by the number of responses (18 posts in less than 24 hours? I wish my games got that kind of attention!) you've got quite a good idea going here. I suggest revamping the number of players in a game to fit these guidelines:

1) Vet
2) Rook
3) Rook
4) Rook

Having only four players in a game forces more cooperation and can lead to better discussion of turns as the game gets back to you after fewer turns have passed. I'd suggest therefore creating 2, 3, or even 4 separate games each with one experienced player and three more inexperienced ones. This would also allow more interested rookie players to get involved in a game, since there seems to be a slight lack of vet players interested at the moment. Maybe trolling some of the other SGs would help

Would having three consecutive turns of rookie players hurt the game too much? I doubt it; for one thing it's only regent level (no offense meant to those who have trouble with regent ), and for another, if the teams are actually discussing things over each player should have a pretty good idea of what to do going into each turn anyway.

Also, if I'm heading a game, I'm going to select a random civ for it Just so that no one gets too comfotable with any one civ

 

[ChrTh]

EDIT: Sure enough, Sullla posts a brilliant idea while I'm replying

I like the 1+3 idea. So here are the Rookie teams so far:

Team 1:
Architect
Erik Mesoy
Rain

Team 2:
Pagan
Padma
ChrTh

Team 3:
Imhotep
Rus_tenisist
Mystery13


If more rookies are interested, I could start a team 4, but right now we only have one vet, Sullla, who has signed up. We need some more vets before we can get going.

On the world map, I think it's a bad idea, because again I think something like that is a crutch. If you master Random Maps, than you can play World Maps. Master World Maps, and Random Maps might throw you hard.

I may even go so far as to make the Civ played a Random Civ, but I haven't determined that yet. <--Sullla agrees with me

Each team will have a different game (it will not be a competition a la RBD 23), so I heartily encourage rookie members to follow both games, and discussion is of course encouraged (the vets can do it too, but I imagine they'll have enough just working their own game).

If you're interested but we can't form a fourth team, feel free to follow along. I imagine these games will be very useful even to those not playing, and if the ideal is realized, someday there may be a link to the respective threads stating "Before you play a SG, read through these games first"--that's my hope anyway.