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New Super League, breaks European football

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Samson, Apr 18, 2021.

  1. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    They have been talking about it for years, now they have gone and done it.

    Only just happened, but it looks like the 12 biggest european clubs outside of Germany and France have taken their ball (and presumably most of the money) and gone to have their own game, and not play in the national leagues.

    The names mentioned are Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United, Tottenham, Atletico Madrid, Barcelona and Real Madrid, AC Milan, Inter Milan and Juventus. Conspicuously missing are PSG and Bayern Munich.

    Uefa and the national leagues are right cross. Players taking part in the Super League would be banned from all other competitions at domestic, European or world level and could be prevented from representing their national teams.

    The big thing in most european football is that it is a promotion / relegation system. If you are are the bottom and keep winning, you end up at the top. If you are at the top and keep losing you drop down the rankings. This does not have that system, so is more like the american system where companies move around if they do not have enough money coming in.

    Gary Neville says it well (the 1st 2 minutes of this video are worth it):



    Beeb Leicester
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
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  2. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    At least in Spain, does it make any sense to have Barcelona and Madrid bother to play the rest of the clubs?
    I suspect the situation is similar (for many reasons, also involving bribes etc) in other countries.

    I do recall something similar had happened with euro basketball, many years ago. But I am not sure if later on it reverted to the old status.
     
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  3. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    Well, this isn't exactly news. It has been brewing for 30 years now, with the talk of the current form of the Super League talking shape 6 years or so. They are in the negotiations for the landscape 2024 and onwards, and it seems in the last round, the smaller leagues made some leeway. So this could either be just a clapback of the big leagues to get more of the money - which would explain why PSG doesn't participate. The Arabs just aren't in it for the money.

    I'd actually be in favour of the new super league, as it would take pressure away from the rest. The calendar is too full already and the time is ripe for a more radical change. If the closed league system is the way to go - so be it. I just find it funny that there are so many English sides supporting the proposal - as the Premier League is the most balanced league where every season it's interesting to see who can claim the championship. I also believe they haven't considered that they can't all be champions in the new league: someone has to be at the bottom of the table after all.

    But again, I just believe that this is a negotiation tactic. They want a rebalancing between (on the club level) national matchdays and international ones (incl. the soon to come FIFA club world cup...), so they can have more of the more lucrative games set during prime time on the weekend for example. As has been noted that is the uniqueness of the European Football ecosystem: a heterogenous mixture of big balanced leagues and small leagues with a few big fishes. I'm not sure the system can hold itself much longer like that - f.e. the interest of Generation Z is sinking - so a change is coming.

    And if I can chose between that Super League and the UEFAs weird proposal of a "Swiss System" Champions League with also two wildcard spots not awarded by sport meritc, I at the moment tend to sympathise with the Super League. Especially as their "Swiss System" has nothing to do with how Swiss Systems usually work. (It's a category of tournaments where each round you play someone of similar strength - so if you win your first round, you'll play against someone who also won their first game in the second round. And so on - but with the UEFA, it's all pre-determined, hence "Swiss".... Why?)

    Again, this is just politics. And economics.
     
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  4. GinandTonic

    GinandTonic Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime

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    Promotion and relegation is the heart of football. Sometimes the mighty fall. Sometimes David slays Goliath. Your office/ pub team is in the same rankings as the best in the world. 10,000 places from the top, but there is a ladder, the potential, the dream.

    Im fine with a super league, but Im incandescent at the idea that 15 clubs are immune from relegation with 5 places earned on merit.
     
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  5. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    I think this is overdue. European soccer leagues are a joke when it comes to parity and competitiveness. I'm surprised anybody would even bother to watch a Serie A game anymore. To any American sports fans who're tired of seeing the New England Patriots or the Golden State Warriors, Juventus has won 11 league titles in the past 20 years, including the last 9 in a row. I think Spain and Italy have had 4 different clubs win the league in 20 years. The English Premier League is maybe the most 'competitive', with, what, all of 6 different champions in the last 20 years? Meanwhile, I think every American pro sports league has had something around 12 different champions over the last 20 years.

    I could probably put together a reasonable guess at what the top of the 2026-2027 Premier League table will look like right now, and in that 20-team league, I could just scratch off about 12 of them tonight. And I'm not talking about clubs in the Championship that might claw their way up. Forget 'em. What are the odds that Spurs, Everton, Leeds Utd, Aston Villa, Wolves, Crystal Palace, Southampton or Newcastle will win a single PL title in the next 20 years? Any of those eight mid-table clubs, in the next twenty years? It'd be a season for the ages for any one of them to win so much as a single title, like when Leicester City won it a few years ago.
     
  6. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Are Atletico and Tottenham really among the 12 biggest or are they just there to prop up the commercial value of their larger local rivals?
     
  7. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    Actually quite high when those other 6 clubs will have been expelled from the Premier League. Sorry for the joke.

    You are right though, as planned right now, the Super League would be more of a competition for the Champions League, so is Leeds versus Sampdoria more interesting than Tottenham - Atletico?

    Both, derbys are interesting, and since there are two groups... But the two clubs clearly show that this wasn't designed on the drawing board since then you'd like a bit more geographic diversity. That's why they also think about adding Porto or Ajax. I am a bit surprised that Zenith St. Petersburg or a Turkish club aren't on the list, as the whole project is a bit autocratic. :)

    Or you'd do it global from the start... We'll see. :)
     
  8. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    Its mainly about these clubs wanting a bigger share of the money from tv rights and if this goes ahead there will be less parity and competitiveness, not more.
    Less money for smaller teams, less money for womens and youth football etc. More smaller local sides going bankrupt.
     
  9. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    With the money thrown into clubs in the premier league, they really should be given far more to join a project which possibly won't last for that many years.
     
  10. uppi

    uppi Deity

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    According to the Uefa club coefficient, they are both top 15. It is rather the Milan clubs which have a dubious claim.

    Of course, it all depends on how you want to measure this.
     
  11. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    Viewing figures which would be down if they didn't have a couple of Italian clubs.
     
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  12. Sofista

    Sofista Emperor

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    And yet, Leicester City happened.
     
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  13. PhroX

    PhroX Deity

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    If it had a proper promotion/relegation system, I could probably just about tolerate it, but locking in the participants like this proposal is awful. It's clear it has nothing to do with sport and everything to do with making rich people even richer.
     
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  14. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    The Special One sacked, because he only won 51% of his games, because he objected to the ESL, or as a way to throw a dead cat on the table?

    The Germans say they were offered and turned it down:

    Bundesliga club Borussia Dortmund have said they and German rivals Bayern Munich both rejected proposals to form a breakaway league.
    Dortmund chairman Hans-Joachim Watzke said that the members of the European Club Association (ECA) had met on Sunday evening and expressed "a clear opinion to reject the foundation of a Super League".​
    He added that the two German clubs on the ECA board, Bayern and Dortmund, had taken "100 percent" the same position "in all discussions".
     
  15. sherbz

    sherbz Emperor

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    Im astonished that the owners have the audacity to announce this and expect fans to drink it up as a good thing. Its utterly utterly disgraceful. And I would go as far to say that even if it is simply a negotiating tactic (and thats putting a very positive face on it indeed) - even if that is the real reason, i would impose a huge fine and dock points or even relegate all of the top 6 for even making the announcement. It crosses a line in the most fundamental way. And Americanises football in the worst way possible. If Uefa and the Premier league dont nip this in the bud, then the UK government should squash it under the monopolies and mergers commission. Because these clubs are behaving like a Cartel and that is illegal. I would go as far to say that these owners should have their ownership of these clubs removed.
     
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  16. PhroX

    PhroX Deity

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    Some of the leaks coming out of the groups disscusions are suggesting that they don't expect fans to drink it up. They view existing fans as a "legacy" that they don't need because they can get more new fans who are excited about superstars. Which might be true, but again just demonstrates that this has nothing to do with sport.
     
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  17. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    If this is true, they must be desperate. They currently have a pretty much guaranteed income stream. If they are willing to risk their current fan base and their position in the Premier League on this throw of the dice they must really need that good dice roll. I think the fans of these clubs should ensure they do not get it. But people are prepared to buy from amazon, so I do not expect it to happen.
     
  18. PhroX

    PhroX Deity

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    I do wonder how much of it is tied into COVID. I know the clubs have been talking about this kind of thing for ages, but they've taken big losses over the last year and it could be that which has driven them to finally pull the trigger.
     
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  19. sherbz

    sherbz Emperor

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    This makes the case of compulsory selling even more compelling.
     
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  20. sherbz

    sherbz Emperor

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    In a way im kind of glad they have done this. If it means that fans hold 51% of the ownership then it will be a good thing IMO (i.e. the Bundesliga approach). Needless to say Bayern and Dortmund declined to participate. And Bayern provided its fans with a subsidy to watch their champions league tie at the Emirates because the ticket was so expensive. Thats the sort of club ethos fans in the UK deserve. Not American money men looking to suck as much money out of the game as humanly possible.
     
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