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New Tech Tree Playtesting + Feedback

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Oct 8, 2016.

  1. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Were making it hapen

    I'm finally at a point where I can make the much discussed new tech tree available for playtesting.

    How to get it

    While the new tech tree is still in playtesting, the current state of the mod will still remain available on Git. If you are familiar with the Git version of the mod, you have been using the main develop branch. The new tech tree is available on the separate hrtechs branch. You can switch to it as follows (in the TortoiseGit menu):
    • Select "Fetch ..." and press OK.
    • Select "Switch/Checkout ...", in the dropdown menu next to "Branch" you should be able to select "hrtechs". Confirm with OK and let Tortoise do its thing.
    To switch back to "normal" Git DoC repeat the second step selecting "develop" instead.

    Content

    Here is a (mostly) complete changelog covering everything but the new techs themselves.

    Spoiler :
    Techs
    - completely new tech tree with 21 techs per era based on the History Rewritten tech tree
    - renamed Modern and Future eras to Global and Digital era respectively

    Mechanics
    - unhealthiness from power now scales with the number of buildings using power in a city
    - improvements only affect happiness/healthiness if they are worked

    New Buildings
    - Weaver (Aesthetics): +25% culture, +1 happiness from Dye, Cotton, Silk
    - Baths (Medicine): +2 health
    - Constabulary (Judiciary): -25% war weariness, +25% espionage
    - Coffeehouse (Urbanism): +1 happiness from Sugar, Tea, Coffee, Tobacco
    - Post Office (Paper): +1 trade route, +1 statesman slot
    - Wharf (Compass): +50% trade route yield
    - Civic Square (Statecraft): +25% GP birth, +1 statesman slot
    - Sewer (City Planning): +2 health
    - Distillery (Chemistry): +1 happiness from Wine, Fruit, Sugar, -1 health from Wine, Fruit, Sugar
    - News Press (Journalism): +25% culture, +25% GP birth, +1 statesman slot
    - Cinema (Film): +1 happiness, +1 happiness with Movies, +25% culture
    - Hotel (Tourism): +20% trade route yield per culture level
    - Park (Social Sciences): No unhappiness from Towns
    - Solar Plant (Renewable Energy): maximum latitude 45 degrees, provides power
    - Estate (Horticulture): +1 artist slot, +1 statesman slot, +1 happiness per 20% culture
    - Pharmacy (Alchemy): +1 health from Wine, Fruit, Whale, +1 scientist slot
    - Department Store (Synthetics): +25% gold with power, +1 merchant slot
    - Monument (Ceremony): +2 culture
    - Railway Station (Railroad): +25% gold, +1 engineer slot, +1 unhealth from Coal, Oil
    - Star Fort (City Planning): -50% bombard damage
    - Electrical Grid (Social Services): +10% commerce with power

    Removed Buildings
    - Grocer

    Changed Buildings
    - Lighthouse (Navigation): +1 trade route
    - Public Transport (Infrastructure): no unhealthiness from Village, Town
    - Recycling Center (Renewable Energy): no unhealthiness from Mine, Workshop
    - Nuclear Plant (Nuclear Power): provides power with Uranium, +1 scientist slot, required to build ICBMs, no chance of meltdown
    - Hospital (Microbiology): +3 health, -25% war weariness
    - Bank (Finance): +25% gold
    - Castle (Fortification): +1 culture, +50% defense, +4 siege experience
    - Jail (Law): +2 espionage, -25% maintenance, +25% espionage
    - Courthouse (Constitution): -25% maintenance, +1 statesman slot
    - Laboratory (Electricity): +25% science with power
    - Supermarket (Consumerism): +10% food with power
    - Market (Currency): +25% gold, +1 happiness from Fur, Spices, Ivory, Incense
    - Broadcast Tower (Radio): +25% culture with power
    - Granary (Pottery): retains 25% food after growth
    - Aqueduct (Metal Casting): retains 25% food after growth

    Great People Buildings
    - Great Artist: Museum (Heritage): +20% GP birth per culture level
    - Great Engineer: Manufactory (Guilds): +25% production, +50% trade route yield
    - Great Merchant: Stock Exchange (Corporation): +50% gold, +10% gold per culture level
    - Great Scientist: Academy (Philosophy): +50% science, +10% science per culture level
    - Great General: Armoury (Standing Army): +50% military production

    National Wonders
    - National College (Humanities, requires Universities): +100% science, +3 scientist slots
    - Military Academy (Social Sciences, requires Barracks): Free Leadership, +100% military production
    - National Gallery (Civil Liberties): +100% culture, +3 artist slots
    - National Monument (Heritage, requires Monuments): +100% GP birth, +3 statesman slots
    - National Theatre (Literature, requires Theatres): +2 happiness per culture level, +1 happiness per 20% culture
    - Central Bank (Macroeconomics): +100% gold, +3 merchant slots

    New Units
    - Skirmisher (Contract, Tanning): Strength 4, 1 first strike, 50% retreat chance, 2x collateral damage (limit 25%), +25% hill attack
    - Horseman (Riding): Strength 6, 20% retreat chance, -25% city strength, +25% vs. Siege
    - Pistolier (Firearms): Strength 10, 25% retreat chance
    - Dragoon (Biology): Strength 14
    - Hussar (Nationalism, Biology): Strength 12, 30% retreat chance, +50% vs. Cannon
    - Militia (none): Strength 2, +25% city defense
    - Light Swordsman (Alloys): Strength 4, +25% vs. Spearman
    - Heavy Spearman (Civil Service): Strength 6, +100% vs. Mounted
    - Howitzer (Assembly Line): Strength 18, 75% retreat chance, 7x collateral damage (limit 70%), +25% city attack, 16% bombard
    - Arquebusier (Firearms): Strength 9
    - Heavy Galley (Alchemy): Strength 5
    - Cog (Guilds): Strength 3, 2 cargo
    - Galleass (Gunpowder): Strength 8, +25% coast defense
    - Torpedo Boat (Ballistics, Thermodynamics): Strength 18, 1 first strike, 25% retreat chance, +50% coast attack
    - Cruiser (Engine): Strength 28
    - Biplane (Flight): Strength 12, 50% intercept, 8% bombard
    - Nuclear Bomber (Fission, Flight): can detonate nuke, limited range

    Removed units
    - Airship
    - Tactical Nuke
    - Warrior (still available to barbarians)
    - Axeman (still available to barbarians)

    Renamed units
    - Knight -> Lancer
    - Trireme -> War Galley
    - Attack Submarine -> Nuclear Submarine

    Significantly changed units
    - several units have received slight adjustments (cost etc.) that are not listed here
    - significantly increased the cost of all siege units and gave them a high base retreat chance
    - lowered base strength of early siege units and gave them high city attack modifiers
    - removed retreat chance and flanking from Cuirassier
    - Longbowman (Standing Army): Strength 6, 1 first strike, 50% retreat chance, 3x collateral damage (limit 50%), +50% hill attack, upgrades from Skirmisher
    - Crossbowman (Machinery): 1 first strike, +25% city defense, +25% hill defense
    - Horse Archer (Nobility): Strength 8, 30% retreat chance, -25% city strength, +50% vs. Heavy Swordsman
    - Pikeman (Urbanism): Strength 6, +100% vs. Mounted and Melee
    - Artillery (Ballistics): Strength 14, 75% retreat chance, 6x collateral damage (limit 60%), +25% city attack, 12% bombard
    - Musketman (Replaceable Parts): Strength 12

    Improvement changes
    - Camp (Tanning): improves Fur, Deer, Ivory, +1 commerce with Firearms
    - Forest Preserve renamed Nature Preserve (Microbiology): improves Fur, Elephant
    - Lumbermill (Feudalism): +1 production from river, +1 commerce with Paper
    - Mine (Mining): +1 unhealthiness, +1 production with Geology, +1 commerce with Central Planning
    - Offshore Platform (Electronics): +1 unhealthiness
    - Orchard (Pottery): improves Wine, Spices, +1 food with irrigation, +1 commerce with Crop Rotation
    - Pasture (Pastoralism): +1 food with Refrigeration
    - Plantation (Calendar): improves Sugar, Coffee, Tea, Dye, Incense, Tobacco, Cotton, Silk, Banana, +1 commerce with Horticulture
    - Quarry (Masonry): improves Stone, Marble, +1 production with Geology, +1 commerce with Central Planning
    - Town: +1 unhappiness, +1 unhealthiness, +1 commerce with Highway, +1 commerce with Capitalism
    - Village: +1 unhealthiness
    - Watermill (Machinery): +1 production +1 commerce, +1 commerce with Electricity
    - Well (Refining): +1 unhealthiness
    - Workshop (Artisanry): +2 production +1 unhealthiness, +1 commerce with Highway, +1 production with Machine Tools, +1 commerce with Central Planning

    Wonder changes
    - Angkor Wat (Civil Service): +1 food for Priest
    - Colossus (Metal Casting): +2 commerce on water for its city
    - Great Lighthouse (Navigation): +2 trade routes in its city, free Lighthouse in all cities
    - Hanging Gardens (Calendar): no unhealthiness from flood plains
    - Pyramids (Masonry): cities grow while producing with food
    - Space Elevator (Supermaterials): +100% spaceship production
    - Statue of Zeus (Metal Casting): no resistance on city conquest
    - Great Sphinx (Worship): wonders are produced with food
    - Three Gorges Dam renamed Itaipu Dam
    - Flavian Amphitheatre (Engineering): removed XP requirement
    - CERN Research Complex (Fission): free Laboratory in all cities
    - Ishtar Gate (Arithmetics): +1 slot for all specialists
    - La Mezquita (Scholarship): +2 free specialists
    - Topkapi Palace (Judiciary): conquered cities receive free production
    - Brandenburg Gate (Nationalism): great general threshold resets on great general death
    - Westminster Palace (Journalism): free Courthouse in all cities
    - Porcelain Tower (Printing Press): no open borders required for trade routes
    - Red Fort (Firearms): +100% enemy war weariness
    - removed Mount Rushmore

    Unique Powers
    - Portuguese UP: allows Ocean trade after the discovery of Cartography

    Unique Historical Victories
    - Babylonia: be first to discover Construction, Arithmetics, Writing, Calendar, Contract
    - Greece: be first to discover Geometry, Tradition, Aesthetics, Philosophy, Medicine
    - Rome: be first to discover Architecture, Politics, Machinery, Civil Service, Theology
    - Korea: be first to discover Printing
    - Poland: be first to discover Civil Liberties
    - England: be first to discover ten techs of the Renaissance and ten techs of the Industrial era
    - Germany: be first to discover ten techs of the Industrial and ten techs of the Global era
    - Japan: be first to discover ten techs of the Global and ten techs of the Digital era


    This includes all the bug fixes I've made that happened after I started working on the new tech tree.

    Feedback and Discussion

    This thread is for everything you encounter while playing with the new tech tree and all further associated changes. I'm especially interested in
    • tech speed and tech progression, in my experience overall tech speed is a little too slow but I'd like to hear more detailed information about this
    • impact on UHVs, almost all of them are directly or indirectly impacted and I'd like to know if goals have become too easy/hard
    • religion founding (right locations etc.), I know that this is still mostly off right now
    • logical oversights like civs starting with units they do not have the tech for etc.
    If you want to give feedback on tech progression, please upload the two new log files Techs.log and TechStatus.log. They contain useful information about how techs were discovered over the course of the game.

    You can of course also discuss everything else in this thread: new buildings and units, changes to existing stuff, association of game elements with certain techs, and so on.

    Thank you for your feedback!
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2016
    Bernd-das-Brot and ales_ like this.
  2. ales_

    ales_ Heir

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    What about China UHV?
     
  3. DarkLunaPhantom

    DarkLunaPhantom Prince Supporter

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    I started a 3000BC Aztec game and got this Python exception during autoplay:
    Spoiler :
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "BugEventManager", line 400, in _handleDefaultEvent
    File "CvRFCEventHandler", line 593, in onBeginGameTurn
    File "Plague", line 81, in checkTurn
    File "Plague", line 119, in startPlague
    File "Plague", line 417, in isVulnerable
    AttributeError: Plague instance has no attribute 'getPlagueCountdown'

    EDIT: Tech tree at least looks nicer than the old one. :D
     
  4. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Properly Paranoid Proletarian

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    Now why did you go and do that?

    There's a new Fruit resource?

    What is the reason behind this?

    That... is brilliant!

    Why would castles give experience to siege weapons?

    I am glad to see that you have come around to the right way of thinking, my friend. Copycat.

    Yes, finally, culture being useful! Of course I am going to disassociate these buildings from Great People in my modmod, but the fact that I can use already existing code instead of trying to merge my own culture mod alone is going to make things so much easier for me!

    Is the Armoury just a renamed Military Academy or does that still exist?

    I was going to ask what paper has to do with trees, then I realized I'm an idiot.

    Why do you hate the greatest nation on Earth so much, you Dalai Lama loving imperialist?

    Does this only apply to attached GGs or does settling or building an armoury count as dying too? If this does apply only to units with attached GGs dying it encourages using GGs to make actual super combat units to throw into battle instead of just super medics, and I like that.

    Why do you hate the greatest nation on Earth so much, you nazi commie redcoat?

    Why Renaissance? I'd argue France was the tech leader there.

    All in all I really like most of these changes, but I am a bit sad that you refuse to incorporate ranged strikes. Oh well, at least that means my modmod isn't redundant.

    Btw, is there a way to have separate mod folders for both the hrtechs branch and the old version? Edit: Never mind, this seems like something I should be able to figure out myself. Just following the instructions to get the Git version but renaming the folder to something else, followed by editing the scenario files and the .ini file to match the new name should do the trick, right? But then I'd have to repeat these file edits every time I pull the new version, no?
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2016
  5. civcivcivcivciv

    civcivcivcivciv Warlord

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    if Tactical Nuke is removed

    then submarine can not launched nuclear missiles ?
     
  6. ales_

    ales_ Heir

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    That's the way it is in History Rewritten. Modern and Future are too generic names.
    Maybe new siege units are practicing on their own castle?
     
  7. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Properly Paranoid Proletarian

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    And I think Global and Digital are too specific. Also id doesn't even make sense, how is the digital age not global too?

    This seems like an effect worthy of the Balseraphs in Fall From Heaven.
     
  8. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    It's unchanged (technically Printing Press changed to Printing).

    Noted.

    Not yet, I plan to go ahead and replace Banana with Fruit at some later point. Looks like I got ahead of myself in the documentation.

    I removed the Grocer because I don't think the difference to Markets was clear enough, and because it meant clustering gold modifiers around the medieval era. In the old tech tree, Guilds and Banking were very close so you could get +100% gold very early. Its health effects moved to the new Pharmacy building.

    It's Xyth's idea :D

    I'm still considering if National Wonders should also get these modifiers.

    By the way, further culture level related stuff is going to come, such as wonder and national wonder limits.

    Armoury is the new name for the old Military Academy building. But there is now a new Military Academy building which is a national wonder.

    I discussed the reasons previously:
    - the Itaipu Dam was earlier and the much more impressive work of engineering for its time
    - unlike the Three Gorges Dam it is connected to a UHV

    also what does this have to do with sweden

    Settling does not count, only combat deaths. And yeah that is exactly the idea.

    If you look at the Renaissance techs you find several techs where England was at least among the leading nations.

    I think if you only change the ini file there should be no conflict when pulling. Switching between branches with only one folder is the other solution, that's the concept behind branches at least.
     
    ales_ likes this.
  9. J422

    J422 Chieftain

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    Wow, lots of new things, that's great !

    Played a little, so here are the first bugs :

    Water tiles are never workable

    Babylon starts with a lot of techs

    A bunch of errors appear on turn 8 in the 3000BC scenario errors.png
     
  10. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    On Babylon: I needed to scale up their UP in relation to the number of techs. Is it too much?

    I'll get to the other bugs soon.
     
  11. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Properly Paranoid Proletarian

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    Noice. Just like ponies, whenever I'm starting to think you're in decline you rise like a phoenix from the ashes to amaze me.

    At least you didn't say Canada, that would have triggered me.

    Also what about Mount Rushmore?

    I have to change the scenario files by definition if they are in a folder with a different name, because they are Private Maps which can only be played if the mod that is currently loaded has the same name as the mod specified in the scenario files. That was quite the headache for me back when I was regularly releasing new versions of my modmod with the number of the version in the mod's name.
     
  12. J422

    J422 Chieftain

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    Did a Canada autoplay from 3000 BC, tech speed is definitely too low...

    In 1866, there are only a handful of civs with industrial techs, most of them only have the ones they spawned with, England only has chemistry.
    Paris is building a longbowman : )
    Sans titre.png

    Apparently there was no colonization at all in the americas...
    Sans titre3.png
    Trading companies seemed to work, though. (I think the only non TC colony is english Sydney)

    Sans titre2.png
    Here are the logs, as you can see lots of "first" techs were due to civs spawning.
     

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  13. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Okay thanks, that confirms my worries. Looks like this affects all civs across the board, I'll try a 20% speed increase for everyone.

    I think my work cycle is just longer than your patience period ;)

    It was a glorified national wonder to begin with, we already have enough American wonders, and then there's its racially contentious background.

    That's why I would recommend the branch switching approach.
     
  14. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Properly Paranoid Proletarian

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    You mean because it's technically a heinous insult to the native people who worship the land?

    Is there an easy way to compare differences between files though?
     
  15. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    As in, it was literally a holy mountain to the local indigenous population.

    You can in the command line interface (see here), not sure if Tortoise can do something similar.
     
  16. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Update:
    - Sailing enables working water tiles
    - fixed a Python exception in the Plague module
     
  17. h0spitall3rz

    h0spitall3rz Grand Vizier of Your Mind

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    You can! If you're using TortoiseGit, the Diff options in the TortoiseGit context menu allows you to compare differences between two files. If the file has been modified, you can compare it to the original remote copy. You can also compare it to the previous version. And most importantly, you can compare two different files together using the Diff Later... option. Very handy for me especially when manually merging. :)
     
  18. h0spitall3rz

    h0spitall3rz Grand Vizier of Your Mind

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    Yay! I thought it was just me and my sluggish old laptop. I suggest significantly adjusting the tech costs. I modified my copy of the hrtechs branch, heavily adjusting the costs while still basing the pattern on the original one. Playing a few games with it, I observed it significantly improved tech progress in games, especially in the 1700 AD scenario, but I still can't get the right speed. I don't fully understand the CvTeam::getResearchCost() method in the DLL so I tried only commenting out the lines which make the tech costs affected by the map size--we only have one map size, and the modifier is currently a bit high since the map size is described as "huge."

    I also noticed that some of the civs do not have enough starting techs according to their birth year. For instance, I think Greece, India and Phoenicia should start with at least half of the column 3 techs; and Japan, Vikings, Khmer and Indonesia should spawn with maybe one column 7 tech. And Turkey and Germany don't start with any techs in the 1700 AD scenario.

    I've already implemented my own ideas into my local copy. I can link here the spreadsheet containing my adjusted tech costs as well as push my modified CIV4TechInfos.xml and Civilizations.py files if needed. :)
     
  19. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Actually the best would be if you could start an ongoing pull request of your changes against my hrtechs branch :)
     
  20. h0spitall3rz

    h0spitall3rz Grand Vizier of Your Mind

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    I already branched out from your hrtechs branch quite a long time ago, but I actually managed to screw up that branch recently when I merged in your recent commits (those you pushed shortly before opening this thread). Although what I was able to push only so far was to update the # of building types constant in the DLL, removed the old Sejmik and Tambo XML entries, and add a new Copper Age era game text, as well as the Sailing water working ability which you already pushed. I'll push my suggested modifications on the tech costs and civ starting techs after I sleep. :)
     

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