New To Civ IV - It's Not Grabbing Me

[RobS]

Edit: NOTE, many of my complaints in this post have been resolved downtopic. I'm mostly overwhelmed by the graphics and complexity of this game, compared to the earlier Civs.

So, I'm a longtime Civ player, starting with the original. I graduated to Civ II and then Civ III, which I played since shortly after its release (2001?) until about a couple of years ago, so about 15 years - great game.

I bought Civ IV about a year ago and finally started getting into it about a month ago. It's not grabbing me, like the previous iterations did by this time. I'm playing Civ IV Beyond the Sword, v.3.19, which I think is the final version.

I've so far started about a dozen games, at low skill level of course, Chieftain, and the last couple at Warlord. None were played to completion. The reason I haven't played any to completion is basically because things get really boring once I get into the 1900's, game time.
I obviously know it's a complicated game with complex interactions, and the strong tendency to play according to the Civ III rules that I'm familiar with is still something I need to overcome, although I've definitely been making good progress with that, but there are nevertheless a number of things I don't think I will ever like about this game, which for now include:

Graphics - The graphics are far too busy.
It's too hard to discern the units from the background scenery, and many similar units from one another.
Roads and railroads do not graphically connect properly and are too hard to see. I know the developers were trying to avoid the end-game maze of roads and railroads from Civ III, but they should still be more visible than they are.
The various on-screen texts are far too small. Their colors are often too hard to read on top of the map graphics.
The scrolling news ticker at the top of the page whenever something diplomatically happens scrolls much too fast. I barely have time to read it, let alone comprehend it.

Tech Tree is Wrong - The in-game tech tree is wrong. I could understand that it might become outdated in the manual, as it did with Civ III, but why is it wrong in-game? To me, this is inexcusable.

I haven't played enough to judge many of the other aspects of the game, but my several graphics related issues are really putting a crimp on my gameplay.

Since I'm playing what appears to be the latest and last version of the game, I would assume that errors such as the faulty tech tree never got fixed. I suppose someone might have made a mod, I don't know.
Perhaps there are also mods to "fix" some of the graphics issues, but I'm not sure I'd enjoy the game enough to bother downloading and installing any.

 

[Swordnboard]

Hi Rob,

Welcome to Civ IV! Sorry to hear you're not enjoying the graphics, I think lots of more veteran players like myself have just gotten used to everything and don't remember our frusutrations in figuring the UI out. Here are some ways to get around the issues you've encountered.

It's too hard to discern the units from the background scenery, and many similar units from one another.

You can try pressing CTRL-B to enable "bare map mode", which will remove units and cities from view and let you just look at the background tiles. Pressing CTRL-B again reverts back to normal. As for the units, make sure "single unit graphics" in the options menu is turned off. This will make the units take up more visual space on their tiles.

Roads and railroads do not graphically connect properly and are too hard to see. I know the developers were trying to avoid the end-game maze of roads and railroads from Civ III, but they should still be more visible than they are.

The various on-screen texts are far too small. Their colors are often too hard to read on top of the map graphics.

Not sure what to do about these two, except perhaps a graphics mod. I'll let you know if I learn any way to improve this in the base game.

The scrolling news ticker at the top of the page whenever something diplomatically happens scrolls much too fast. I barely have time to read it, let alone comprehend it.

In the upper left of your screen, there is an icon with a book that opens the "event log", so you can recap events even if you miss them when they originally flash on the screen.

Tech Tree is Wrong - The in-game tech tree is wrong. I could understand that it might become outdated in the manual, as it did with Civ III, but why is it wrong in-game? To me, this is inexcusable.

What did you notice was incorrect? As far as I know, the in-game tree doesn't have any errors. Not all prerequisites are labeled with arrows, but should be listed with icons on the technologies.

I've so far started about a dozen games, at low skill level of course, Chieftain, and the last couple at Warlord. None were played to completion. The reason I haven't played any to completion is basically because things get really boring once I get into the 1900's, game time.

Agree that the modern eras can be a little bit slow. There are many routes to finish the game (conquest, domination, cultural, diplomatic via Apostolic Palace) which can be completed long before this point, even on higher difficulties. If you'd like to post some of your saves over on the Strategy & Tips forum, folks are very happy to give advice and you may soon find yourself leaping up in difficulty and avoiding the slow modern eras entirely. Unfortunately, there is no definitive guide for new players on the forums, so posting a game will be your best bet.

 

[RobS]

As for the units, make sure "single unit graphics" in the options menu is turned off. This will make the units take up more visual space on their tiles.

It is, I never turned it on.

In the upper left of your screen, there is an icon with a book that opens the "event log", so you can recap events even if you miss them when they originally flash on the screen.

That helps, thanks.

What did you notice was incorrect? As far as I know, the in-game tree doesn't have any errors. Not all prerequisites are labeled with arrows, but should be listed with icons on the technologies.

Well, yes, the missing arrows thing is what I'm referring to. Thanks for the heads-up on the little icons, that helps. I do wish all the advancement progressions would have been properly marked with arrows, but perhaps there was no good way to do that with the limited screen space.
Speaking of screens, I have a 24" monitor, btw, which should be plenty big for any kind of game.

If you'd like to post some of your saves over on the Strategy & Tips forum, folks are very happy to give advice and you may soon find yourself leaping up in difficulty and avoiding the slow modern eras entirely.

Thanks for the offer, but that's alright. I'll decide whether battling the graphics, which to me are overwhelming on my 58-year-old eyes, is worth getting deeper into this game over. Difficulty levels are not a concern for me. I've always played the Civ games in what I consider a "realistic" manner, without resorting to "bean counting" just to be able to win against a higher programmed opponent. To me, that's work, not fun. With Civ III, I never went past the mid-level difficulties, I forget the exact one I played. In this game, I would guess I would probably never seriously play above Prince or Monarch.

Edit: I'll peruse these forums from time to time, since there is a humongous amount of information here, so I'm sure I'll learn a lot from just doing that. It's a slow process and I don't have the patience I had 20-25 years ago. ;-)

One small point - I've noticed that during the various world building screens at the very start of a new game, the Island Overlap selection doesn't seem to be remembered from game to game, unlike the other selections which are. I keep having to select "Islands Mixed In", because the game keeps defaulting to "Island Region Separate".

 

[Fippy]

Maybe using BAT mod could help you with graphics, they are darker..i find the original ones annoying too by now.
Example pic https://forums.civfanatics.com/atta...1/?temp_hash=a0fdd725ff2220394f52a4c1bd36ab4d

 

[RobS]

Maybe using BAT mod could help you with graphics, they are darker..i find the original ones annoying too by now.
Example pic https://forums.civfanatics.com/atta...1/?temp_hash=a0fdd725ff2220394f52a4c1bd36ab4d

Thanks, but I'll try to get deeper into this game before I start messing with mods.

 

[lymond]

Well, Rob, we certainly must help you remedy this situation, as we'd like to see you learn to love one of the best games ever. I think there are several things you can do that will help your experience a lot.

Above, BAT was mentioned, but I will go ahead and link you to the BUG thread where BUG/BULL, BAT and Blue Marble can be downloaded:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/download-bug-and-bat-here.274636/

BAT is basically BUG/BULL + Blue Marble and some other graphic enhancements. I recommend installing BUG/BULL as well if you liked to play some forum games (single player). BUG improves the user interface and other info related stuff.

Blue Marble is interesting mod for you. It is a non-conflicting persistent install. Improves map graphics, but also on second tab of install tool you can change color of UI and change text scaling (although I've never messed with that myself).

Here are a couple of examples:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

As for the units, make sure "single unit graphics" in the options menu is turned off

Actually, I prefer single unit graphics turned on. It's less cluttered and is a performance enhancement. You can also turn off unit animations as well, which get old after a few games and slow the game down.

Make sure you are running at the correct resolution. Not sure the setup of your machine. 24" you did mention, so I would guess you are running a native 1920X1080 rez.

Honestly, I think IV graphics are great, especially with the mods. IMO everything is so tangible and easy to see. I can't play III anymore and I have 20/10 vision. I like IV graphics better than V and VI as well. They'll never get old. I love how you can just look at the units to know what they are as opposed to V and VI where you are just looking at icons.

Anyway, also note the Field of View slider. With BUG installed, or whatever, the FoV is moved to the main screen (you can see in top right of my pic above). Otherwise, you can toggle it in the Options menu (last tab I think). It allows you to move the view in or out without using the normal scroll zoom, which is different. FoV doesn't change the quality.

Not sure how to answer on the Tech Tree is wrong. I can assure you it is not.

As suggested, I encourage you to spend time in the Strategy & Tips forum to learn the game. Just learning some basics can really help improve the experience. And yes, as you've already found out, there is a lot to learn even if you've a lot of experience with other versions.

I recommend playing on at least Noble for now. Basically "neutral" level. Challenging for new player but with learning a few basic things you should have no issues.

Edit: I'll peruse these forums from time to time, since there is a humongous amount of information here, so I'm sure I'll learn a lot from just doing that. It's a slow process and I don't have the patience I had 20-25 years ago. ;-)

Don't give up on us yet! I suspect that much of the IV faithful here skew more towards your age than..say..adolescence.

One small point - I've noticed that during the various world building screens at the very start of a new game, the Island Overlap selection doesn't seem to be remembered from game to game, unlike the other selections which are. I keep having to select "Islands Mixed In", because the game keeps defaulting to "Island Region Separate".

Sounds like you use the "Play Now" feature. I use the "Custom Game" option myself. Just one screen where you can change all the options. However, that still won't make some of the "sub-map options" persistent. But most options are remembered from the previously played game like map type/speed/size, and your other settings.

 

[lymond]

Also, I'm providing a link to Blue Marble via my google drive (for some reason I can't attach a file here right now). You can find it through the BUG thread link, but this will make it easier.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HU_KLgl3jbDuia7Y9L7rVygUcsrpV_uK/view?usp=sharing

 

[Windsor]

Well, yes, the missing arrows thing is what I'm referring to. Thanks for the heads-up on the little icons, that helps. I do wish all the advancement progressions would have been properly marked with arrows, but perhaps there was no good way to do that with the limited screen space.

It's not about limited space or "missing arrows". The icons are pre-requisites. Techs you have to have before you can research the tech. The arrows are OR arrows. So if you want to research Writing you only need Pottery, Animal Husbrandry OR Priesthood.

But there's not many techs without an arrow leading to them, only Divine Right(requires Monarchy and Theology), Astronomy(requires Astronomy and Calendar) and Flight (Combustion + Physics). At least if I remember correctly.

 

[Fippy]

Go with what Lymond suggested in his excellent post
He will help you with everything, just have to ask ~~

Civ4 is one of those games that really shines after it's customized & set up well, with annoying stuff changed or filtered (depending on personal preference).
I agree with Lymo on single unit graphics i.e., and could barely stand playing with having 3 warriors shown when it's in reality just one..

Those mentioned "mods" are not changing core gameplay, like some other settings they just make your experience better.
Maybe calling them mods is not accurate anyways, in mmos i.e. they would be called UI interfaces.

 

[ArchGhost]

Would highly recommend installing BUG mod at the very least, if you want to have an easier time learning from the game itself and aren't bothering with anything visual yet. The game tends to hide sometimes critical information (you can figure it out yourself, but BUG is basically an interface tool that brings it right out with less hassle) and personally I think some of the screens (Espionage, Attitudes) are just ugly/messy without it. BUG also comes with an improved Civlopedia with some articles from this very site pre-loaded for immediate perusal if a question comes up (some can be a bit outdated, so mileage may vary).

I also think it's BUG that is responsible for the fully customizable Domestic Advisor (list of cities in table format), something that I use very, very much as I started out in the civ world with Civ Revolution of all things (where you spam tons of cities just like Civ 3) and it's a dynamite tool for managing and overseeing many cities at once; you can pick and choose what fields you want to track, so it's very helpful for sorting and tasking cities.

BUG also has a lot of customization options for some of things you mention, like the event log. You can do things like pick what shows up in the event log, customize the complexity and look of the scoreboard. As far as I know nothing gameplay-wise is actually changed without installing something supplemental (BULL), it just is more efficient at displaying what information is already there or might have been hidden but still calculated.

Tech Tree is Wrong - The in-game tech tree is wrong. I could understand that it might become outdated in the manual, as it did with Civ III, but why is it wrong in-game? To me, this is inexcusable.

I saw the others try to help you with this and your response...but I thought of another thing you can do. If the technology tree seems hard to read or oddly ordered, just click on the tech you want to get to, and the game will automatically select/highlight all the prerequisites needed and label them numerically with a tech order (researching 1 first, then 2, etc).

For instance, if I click on Divine Right (which has no arrows to it):

You can see that Monarchy and Theology are going to be teched first before I can tech Divine Right. But why are Monarchy and Theology #4 and #3 in order? Because I still need the prereqs for both Monarchy and Theology first:


Here you can see that Monarchy requires Monotheism OR Priesthood (multiple arrows), but since Theology REQUIRES Monotheism (its the only arrow to Theo) the game selected the Polytheism > Monotheism path instead of Meditation > Priesthood path to Monarchy to kill two birds with one stone and unlock Theology at the same time.

This does make me realize the tree is sorta convoluted, but the rules are:
1.) A technology always requires whatever tech's icon(s) are listed in the corner
2.) If a technology has arrows pointing to it, it requires at least one of them


You can use this to see the actual requisites to get somewhere in the tech tree if the little icons in the corner are too hard to see or unfamiliar to you, and read it that way. I know I STILL do this to make sure I am not forgetting something on a tech path when bulbing or prepping a free technology reward from Oracle/Liberalism. Unfortunately I'm not 100% whether this is a BUG feature or not, I've never played the game without using it.

 

[RobS]

Thanks for all the help.

I can always reference back to this thread, but for now I'll just casually play some unmodded games. I'm not much of a modder anyway.
Played a couple of games on the Noble level, as I think someone uptopic advised - and it's hard. At least I can see I'm not alone, since I see threads where players of Civ V come back to Civ IV and comment on how much more difficult it is. I feel the same, coming from Civ III.
I'm just getting the feeling that this is too much of a "bean counting" game for my taste. I'm an old-time hexagon wargamer, so there's a limit to how far I'll go down that road just to win a game and I have a couple of other games that might be more to my liking.

Again, thanks for everyone's help and sorry for coming off too negatively in my original post.