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New to Civ

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by gersfc, Feb 19, 2013.

  1. gersfc

    gersfc Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Hi guys! Brand new to series, was searching eBay few weeks ago and saw Civ III going cheap so thought I'd pick it up.

    Totally loving the game so far, but fair to say I suck bad at this game! Lol was surprised there wasn't a tutorial for noobs like me! Anyway i would really appreciate any hints and tips that you guys could offer as i am getting beat even on chieftain atm!

    Many thanks in advance
     
  2. Theov

    Theov Deity

    Joined:
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    Oh, I see what you're doing wrong: you don't have enough workers! :D

    On a serious note: do a good search here. ;) you will find ALL the tips you need and about all the answers you can come up with!

    I suppose you got Civ3 complete?
    Welcome to the club, if you have a question just make a search and if you can't find it, just ask. It always helps to post a screenshot or a save game with your question.

    One tip:
    next game just start on Regent level or one below that. It's a bit tougher, but it gives you a better feel for the game. On the lowest level it's like learning to play football while practicing against blind toddlers.

    WELCOME
    :aargh::band:[party]
     
  3. bigFRANK

    bigFRANK Warlord

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    Welcome, I picked up the game cheaply a couple of years ago too.

    Chieftain level is pretty easy once you’ve got the basics of the game.

    3 phases to most of my games
    Expansion
    Consolidation
    Domination

    Keep the science high and don’t fixate on building to much infrastructure in your key towns whilst you’re in the expansion phase. Never neglect the need for workers. Build settlers but try to avoid taking the towns back to population 1.

    Consolidation is about making your towns work efficiently to produce units, settlers and science, in this phase you have little useful land that you can freely move into and you’ve met the neighbors, maybe even had a few border skirmishes. At this point you can be trading and should be free from the shackles of despotism. Don’t neglect the need for workers in this period (unroaded worked tiles = missed gold).

    Domination you’re going to be ahead or on par with your neighbors with regards to technology, you’re going to have most strategic resources such as iron/horses/saltpeter/rubber available to you and your going to deprive your neighbor of these with a quick and brutal offensive war. Don’t forget you need workers to improve the territory that you capture.
     
  4. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    The great thing about the game is the variations from person to person and game to game. It would be hard to make a walk-through; or at least 20 people would jump in and object to some part of it.

    Ultimately, though, it's a game of resources and strategy. You take food, shield, gold and strategic and luxury resources and apply them to defeat your rivals in one of several ways.

    Typical big problems for many beginning players:
    • Taking build suggestions from the game (it can be really stupid and doesn't know what you want to do, anyway)
    • Automating units (they also do stupid things)
    • Not focusing on a particular goal (are you going to build a spaceship or steamroll the world?)
    • Building things where they don't make sense (like a library in a hopelessly corrupt town)
    • Wonder addiction (trying to build many great wonders or relying on a particular wonder *every* game like Pyramids or Great Library)
    • Failing to scout (in Conquests; in earlier expansions you can trade maps much earlier)
     
  5. Bandobras Took

    Bandobras Took Emperor

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Orem, UT
    Also:

    Not making enough Settlers.
    Not making enough Workers.
     
  6. Jivilov

    Jivilov Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
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    282
    Well, I'd have said "read the manual" but twelve years ago I tried that and got utterly crushed. I was on this puny little sandspit of an island minding my own business, dutifully cranking out spearmen and archers until around 1300 AD, when a bunch of knights landed from galleons and interrupted my idyllic reverie. That was on Warlord IIRC (thought I'd demonstrate my superiority at a higher level :rolleyes:).

    Since then the learning curve has progressed but there yet remain numerous holes in personal theory and practice. Knew a Dutch enthusiast who used to work oilfields in Nigeria and gave me quite a few tips, but even he was flummoxed by Deity (Demigod on C3C [?]). Civfanatics is the best place so far--why it took so long to join is a mystery--yet even (especially?) here there is conflicting advice as to how to play this enthralling game.

    So continue to love this game and it's practically certain you'll be rewarded with the deep satisfaction that comes from meeting a difficult challenge and winning--every once in awhile, anyway! Welcome to the Civ3 experience. Enjoy. :)
     
  7. bamdorf

    bamdorf Chieftain

    Joined:
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    87
    Location:
    New Jersey
    I just got civ 3 complete from steam for 1.24. Hey, I remember playing this a lot, like about 10 years ago though. As I recall, I did ok though I was not an expert. So I said I would take a break from V and do some retro gaming. I took one game to try to remember tons of stuff. Then I got serious (LOL, at warlord!). Picked England, on large island with Korea. Found the other civs, build a bunch of wonders, seemed to be doing fine. Except one thing. No iron. And Korea had two and would not trade, unless i gave him a bunch of tech. So I said, he's way behind in tech, before he gets cannons and stuff I will go after him.

    Got a stack of 20 plus, lotsa longbows, some muskets, half a dozen trebs. And marched right in!
    And got clobbered. Very embarassing. Ancient infantry, ancient cavalry, waves of units, ugh.

    I assume the answer might be that when you realize you don't have a key resource, like iron, you can't wait, just build a ton of stuff and attack. Or, a stack of 20 is no where near enough. Try 50 or so, LOL,. If it's archers and spearmen, so be it. Or, try to wait until you get oil and tank him. But I just don't remember the game being that hard.

    Or getting older has made me stupider; or maybe I am just too used to playing V.
     
  8. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    Were your units veterans or regular? What was the terrain they were in when they defended? What was the terrain they were attacking into?

    Can you post a save?
     
  9. bamdorf

    bamdorf Chieftain

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    View attachment Elizabeth of the English, 1020 AD.SAV

    This shows a representative save where I thought I was doing pretty well. Perhaps I should just hang on, as fighting w/o iron against someone who has it is bad...btw, he also has the statue of zeus, so he is collecting A. cavs.
     
  10. bamdorf

    bamdorf Chieftain

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    Spoiler :

    civ3_elisabeth_1029ad.jpg
     
  11. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    From the screenshot I see you have three of your 10 cities building great wonders. Do you really need to spend all those shields for those wonders?

    (downloading and analyzing the game...)

    Sun Tzu, 600 shields, gives you a free barracks on every city on the continent. Barracks cost 40s. You have 8 cities on the continent. 8x40 = 320 shields to build native barracks in each city. Granted, each barracks would cost 1gpt, but really you don't need a barracks in each city. London, Nottingham, Canterbury and Hastings are your high-production cities. (Holy crap, an aqueduct would have been a much more worthwhile build than Sun Tzu in Hastings! You're stuck at size 6 in that wonderful city with hills and grass to work.) Anyway, I would have put barracks in those cities and build all troops from there and probably would have owned more of the continent by now.

    You have a longbow standing on Saltpeter just outside your territory. You know about colonies, right? This is one of those situations where you should move a worker there, establish a colony and research Military Tradition ASAP. You're only two techs away but are researching Navigation instead (Why Navigation? You're going for Magellan's, aren't you? :nono: You can already circumnavigate the globe without leaving sea squares. Magellan's (also Navigation) does nothing for you on this map unless you're going for culture or wonder victory.) . If you fear having spears for defense and not pikemen you can build musketmen now (if you colonize the saltpeter), but I'd lean towards rushing to Military Tradition and Cavalry and go all-offense and roll Korea who...holy crap they're just two techs into the middle age and can't build Knights yet!

    You have two barracks built, but most of your troops are regulars. In fact I see only 6 veteran land troops. That extra HP makes a worthwhile difference. I try to identify high-production cities early in the game and usually have them build barracks early and supply the empire with veteran troops.

    You have 7 Caravels, all fortified. What's up with that?

    You're actually in a very good position. Seriously, I would abandon the Navigation research, beeline to Military Tradition, colonize the Saltpeter and roll the world with Cavalry carried to the other continent with your 7 Caravels. I'm not sure I'd even bother to leave the cities standing or resettle the conquered lands as it would just slow me down. Nobody else can build knights yet. Also , the other continent doesn't have iron hooked up yet, so they're still running around with archers, spears and horsemen...they don't have horses connected, either!

    Edit: Oh I see you say you got clobbered fighting Korea with muskets, so I guess you lost a city or two? The military adviser says you're average compared to Korea. You probably absorbed the initial rush and failed to continue pounding. Often after the initial rush of units they are gassed and can't keep up with your production, epecially on Warlord. With a strategic resource disadvantage you just need to pick your battles more carefully, especially since Korea has/had ancient cavs. Or you could have traded with them and built a bunch of swords or knights (depending on when) during the 20-turn period and then used them to take the iron permanently. Or have a bunch of units ready to upgrade, trade for the iron and mass-upgrade. Bingo, instant strong army. But you're less than 10 turns from Cavalry, so resource disadvantage is no more.

    Edit 2: Muskets are kind of expensive for what they're worth at that point in the game. And defensive units give the enemy the choice of where the fight happens. Offensive units let you choose where the battle is. If I were warring in the Gunpowder age in your situation I think I would have schemed to get a bunch of knights and used them for offense and defense.
     
  12. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    I couldn't resist playing some of bamdorf's game. I've played 16 turns. I honored the 13 turns remaining of a luxury trade deal with Korea.

    On the inherited turn I made some drastic build changes, abandoning hundreds of shields invested towards three wonders, a couple of churches and a university, sold off most of the temples and started sending the reg longbowmen to be disbanded to help build vet horsemen. I also abandoned the collected research into Navigation and switched to researching Metallurgy at 100% science at a deficit to complete in 4 turns.

    4 turns after Metallurgy completed I got Military Tradition, zeroed out research, brought saltpeter online and had enough money left over to upgrade the first few horses into cavs.

    I also managed to start getting irrigation to Warwick which can be a productive town with some food.

    After the Korea deal ended I immediately declared war and razed the first two cities. Now I'm cleaning up counterattacks and waiting for him to run out of units before continuing the conquest.

    Mongolia and the Celts are at war. I was going to make them fight each other, but they are already doing it without my encouragement. They are weakening each other so my cavs can come visit their archers and spearmen and explain a few things about the future.
     

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  13. bamdorf

    bamdorf Chieftain

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    Hey guys, thanks for the comments.

    Clearly I don't have a good feeling for what works and what doesn't in this game. Need to stop using "intuition" which apparently is horrible and start really looking at things analytically.

    I was English so getting naval stuff going seemed appropriate. I remember civ I and II I had to build a picket fence to fend off sea borne invasions. Seems I should deal with the problem at hand first.

    And of course I hadn't looked at all at the tradeoffs of wonders. Heck I thought I was playing on Warlord I could do whatever. There are many, many things I haven't learned yet..colonies, what? That was part of the point of this game, to learn some of rules, etc.

    I just was dismayed that 10 or so longbows could be smashed so easily. Duh, waited way to long.

    Hopefully, I can take a little more time thinking and a little less time dreaming, :).
     
  14. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    Wonder and building addiction is common; I did that for a long time, too. You actually have a pretty darn strong production base for such a small map. Your placement of the FP made Hastings a powerhouse with the potential to be the 2nd-best city behind London which is a monster of shields and commerce.

    All I did was analyze the situation and focus the empire on a goal. With your strong production base, half-age tech lead and access to saltpeter and horses the fastest way to victory is to cav rush. But you could probably have won any victory condition you wanted by focusing on a direction and avoiding building too many things that don't help you towards your goal.

    Your Korea is a tough neighbor. Iron, horses and ancient cavalry. And an AI civ that hasn't warred yet often has a huge collection of units to throw at you, but they do run out. So when over-matched in units (number or strength) you try to use the terrain to your advantage: attack them on flat ground, have them attack you on hills or mountains. But the earlier you attack the fewer ancient cav they have, and you really would rather beat them into submission before they can make knights, or later cavs.

    The other continent is doing us a favor by killing each others' stock of units and preventing each other from hooking up resources. Another situation where if you can you should take advantage before they wise up.
     
  15. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    After the Koreans ran out of units to send my way it was a cake walk. I kept cities but didn't defend them; I only lost one to a culture flip, immediately recaptured, faced only archers and spears after eliminating the Koreans and never had a city threatened. Well, one archer did attack a city defended by one hurt cav, but it was at the point of the game where I was just cleaning up and ignoring the stray units.

    I won via conquest in 1340 AD, turn 258 or 41 turns from your last save.

    You were in a strong position, you just needed to pick a direction and go with it. From the replay I couldn't tell what happened in your war; I'm guessing your stack was overwhelmed, but what probably happened is that you wiped his spare military out, too, or nearly so. If you were producing military and hung in there a bit longer you probably would have started rolling him back even with longbowmen against pikes, MDI and AC's.
     

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  16. bamdorf

    bamdorf Chieftain

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    Well, I have played enough Civ to know about wonder addiction. Would have been better off to be at a higher difficulty level... so I would avoid Wonders and so victory disease didn't set in before my first campaign!

    I had 10 or so longbows and some muskets. Figured I would walk in (gotta have a dream). On the first turn of the war the Koreans sent up a dozen or so A. Cav (I had waited far too long). But I thought, hey on attack with lbs should do ok, right? Well, not so good because a lot of the battles they were losing the A. Cavs just retreated. And turn two another bunch of fresh Koreans waltzed up. Shouldn't they have just surrendered to my magnificence?

    And I made another big error. Once I saw that stack I should have swallowed my embarrassment and went defensive while I crash built every unit I could. Easiest would have been to go aggressive hundreds of years earlier.

    Even at Warlord though my biggest problem you have hit on the head. Make a plan, and do it.
    Build this building here, that Wonder there, some unit in the other city, while building naval units to fight a battle that isn't happening yet...LOL, seriously, that's not a plan. Couldn't get over the idea that I had a big tech lead but couldn't build any good military, instead of just figuring out what could be done.

    I could probably still win this thing at this level by getting my act together. Heh, after a serious losing streak, maybe I am not just being unlucky?
     
  17. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    I just re-learned how to get CivAssist II's export minimap working again, so here is the animated minimap for my 41 turns of conquest.
     

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  18. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    I like that!

    How did you do it?
     
  19. bamdorf

    bamdorf Chieftain

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    Sheesh, I need to recalibrate some brain cells, I guess :crazyeye:
     
  20. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    With CivAssist II, in the options screen check "Archive game files" and choose a folder to save them in with the "..." button below. Recommended: Check compress archived files, too.

    Then it saves every autosave in a subfolder by game as you play. After you have some autosaves for a game, in CAII click the Archive button, double-click the game you want to open, then on the World Map tab right-click the minimap and export minimaps.

    Sounds like I need to make another tutorial video....
     

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