New Traits.

[AbbieRevo]

So I was really dissapointed that there weren't any new leader traits in BTS, Warlords had Imperialistic and Charismatic, which emphasized the new military focus of the game, and yet for BTS: bubkis!

WTF Mate?

So, let's come up with some ideas, and maybe someone will mod them in.

I'm gonna start the ball rolling with:

Secretive:
+25% EP's
+50% EP cost for missions against you.

 

[AlessioCerci]

Edit...
Some espionage increasing trait would be ok, but a a diplomatic trait would only work in SP so is probably a non-starter.

 

[Professor Phobo]

I was thinking something like "Diplomatic" or "Cooperative" to round it all out to 12. The peaceful opposite of "Aggressive", perhaps.

 

[snipafist]

Protective is the opposite of aggressive, I'd say. I don't think it would be a good idea to add any more traits, the ones we have already modify just about every aspect of the game. Anything that adds bonuses to diplomacy won't do anything against human players and anything that adds bonuses to espionage won't get used, because while espionage is fun, it's not good enough to warrant giving up a better trait to augment.

 

[Elrohir]

Protective is the opposite of aggressive, I'd say. I don't think it would be a good idea to add any more traits, the ones we have already modify just about every aspect of the game. Anything that adds bonuses to diplomacy won't do anything against human players and anything that adds bonuses to espionage won't get used, because while espionage is fun, it's not good enough to warrant giving up a better trait to augment.

A diplomatic trait could give a bonus for diplomatic votes, though. And I like the idea of a Secretive or Espionage based trait, that could be fun.

 

[Grimus]

I like Diplomatic and Secretive.

 

[Professor Phobo]

Protective is the opposite of aggressive, I'd say. I don't think it would be a good idea to add any more traits, the ones we have already modify just about every aspect of the game. Anything that adds bonuses to diplomacy won't do anything against human players and anything that adds bonuses to espionage won't get used, because while espionage is fun, it's not good enough to warrant giving up a better trait to augment.

Well, the number of traits now is 11. 11 is a crap number. No one likes 11.

Now 12, twelve is popular. People like twelve. Besides, Warlords added three fighty traits. It stands to reason that BTS would add at least one non-fighty traits.

 

[Astax]

Diplo trait wouldn't work for anything outside of SP

 

[Professor Phobo]

Diplo trait wouldn't work for anything outside of SP

Not necessarily. You could say it gives extra trade routes and doubles espionage, or something along those lines.

 

[horseguy123]

It's pretty amazing how utterly obvious something like "Secretive" would've have been - me and a friend actually thought of the exact same thing, same name and everything.

But after awhile, we couldn't figure out what leaders would use it. The closest civ would probably be De Gaulle, being the leader of one of the most important resistances of WWII. Other than him, I'm not sure.

 

[AbbieRevo]

This is really weird, i spent the last couple hours thinking about this, and came up with "Diplomatic" - +6 modifier to relations, and +100% foreign trade route yeild, and then i come back, and that's what people come up with.

Also, i saw someone else on another threaqd talking about "Strategic"- Free Flanking Promotion for Mounted and Armored units, double production of Airport, Stable, and Drydock. Thought that might be cool too.

So that would be 3 traits

 

[Rockstone]

I am thing a trait "Legendary", which would give you a diplomatic boost and would mean that you would automatically be eligible for a diplomatic victory in the UN. Should be fun.

 

[Dutch Canuck]

Here's my contribution for a new leader trait :

Adventurous - for those leaders who were courageous in times of peace and exploration. All naval units start with Navigation I, Scouts and Explorer's start with the Sentry promotion in addition to their other defaulted attributes; Observatories and Stables are at double production speed.

My idea is a trait that encourages exploration both in recon and science. Faster naval units (map knowledge -> trade -> commerce & science), faster stables for getting more experienced cavalry units who prowl terrain, and a shot in science with quicker observatories which in turn helps labs and the space race. It's very "speedy".

 

[Swein Forkbeard]

Seafaring,

Agricultural,

Scientific?

 

[AbbieRevo]

All right so here's my solution for the problem of Diplomatic being inneffective in MP

There will be two versions of the mod, one for single player and one for multi player.

In the single player mod, the diplomatic trait will act as follows:

+100% foreign trade route yield
+6 Modifier in all diplomatic relations
Double Production Speed of Missionaries

In multiplayer:
+100% Foreign Trade route yield
Missionaries can be built without monestaries
Double production speed of missionaries.

Also I think the Strategic trait should give the Flanking I promotion to Naval units as well.


Also, Mr. Forkbeard, how do you suggest these traits from Civ 3 be implemented, it's been a while since I played Civ 3 and i don't remember how they worked in that game, and I imagine they'd need tweaking to fit into Civ IV.

 

[Swein Forkbeard]

All right so here's my solution for the problem of Diplomatic being inneffective in MP

There will be two versions of the mod, one for single player and one for multi player.

In the single player mod, the diplomatic trait will act as follows:

+100% foreign trade route yield
+6 Modifier in all diplomatic relations
Double Production Speed of Missionaries

In multiplayer:
+100% Foreign Trade route yield
Missionaries can be built without monestaries
Double production speed of missionaries.

Also I think the Strategic trait should give the Flanking I promotion to Naval units as well.


Also, Mr. Forkbeard, how do you suggest these traits from Civ 3 be implemented, it's been a while since I played Civ 3 and i don't remember how they worked in that game, and I imagine they'd need tweaking to fit into Civ IV.

I never played Civ3, so I'm not sure. Hmmm...

Agricultural
+1 Food on every land tile
Double production speed of Aqueduct, Public Transportation

Scientific
When you complete all technologies in an era, you get to choose a free tech
Double production speed of Observatory, Laboratory

Seafaring
+1 food, production, and commerce on every water tile
Double Production speed of Harbor, Customs House

 

[vale]

In my opinion Agricultural would be completely and unequivocally broken as written there. Even if it only gave +1 food to each farm that would still be an amazing trait. There would be almost no city placement that would be unviable because of lack of food anymore.

Likewise, if you customized your game type to fit your traits, Seafaring would be very broken.

Scientific sounds pretty lame as is although I guess with lots of planning and work you might be able to set up some sort of slingshot with it. I think it should also provide some other benefit like +2 for each library and university or something of that nature. Not a huge boost, but at least it is something to hang your hat on.

 

[Astax]

All right so here's my solution for the problem of Diplomatic being inneffective in MP

There will be two versions of the mod, one for single player and one for multi player.

In the single player mod, the diplomatic trait will act as follows:

+100% foreign trade route yield
+6 Modifier in all diplomatic relations
Double Production Speed of Missionaries

In multiplayer:
+100% Foreign Trade route yield
Missionaries can be built without monestaries
Double production speed of missionaries.

Also I think the Strategic trait should give the Flanking I promotion to Naval units as well.


Also, Mr. Forkbeard, how do you suggest these traits from Civ 3 be implemented, it's been a while since I played Civ 3 and i don't remember how they worked in that game, and I imagine they'd need tweaking to fit into Civ IV.

Problem is not many people build missionaries in MP if it's FFA. If it's a team game someone is already running Organized Religion. The new trait wouldn't be better than even spiritual. Foreign trade route? Not sure if your teammate counts as foreign. Otherwise no one would use it.

As far as strategic, a trait that gives mounted units flanking 1 would be better I think I can see people using that A LOT. Also if it allowed for faster production of stables and airports

 

[mike p]

Really, the biggest opportunity for a new trait revolves around espionage. Perhaps faster builds for Jails, Security agencies, etc, and a small discount on all espionage mission costs.

BTW, the Great Wall is overpowered and I expect it to be tweaked some in the next patch. Great spies are balanced in the later game, but getting one that early means you can steal 4-5 techs if used properly, which is OP, IMO. Making the Great Wall give only +1 Great Spy point per turn is probably a good idea.

 

[kniteowl]

well if we're gonna make traits, we should make them to suit the leader and not the Civ, in CIV3 the traits represented the Civ, in Civ4 the traits should represent the leader.

How many leaders do you know were Seafaring, Agricultural and Scientific? Not many I guess

I think the Seafaring and Scientific traits have been split up

Scientific has already Partially covered by Financial (obvious), Philosophical (cheap Universities) and Creative (Cheap Libraries)

And Seafaring is covered by Organized (cheap Lighthouses), Expansive (Cheap Harbors) and Aggressive (Cheap Drydocks)

I can see Secretive being a trait in the next expansion which will probably add another 13 Leaders (excluding Phil/Ind) Although Secretive will probably also get cheap Jails and Security Bureaus, although I 'd prefer if they got 1 Cheap early game Building and 1 cheap late game building.

I personally don't want anymore warring type traits, Agg/Cha/Pro/Imp are more then enough, without having to add strategic :S...