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New UU's unbalanced

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by Homie, Oct 28, 2002.

  1. Homie

    Homie Anti-Lefty

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    Is it just me or do you guys agree that some of the new UU's are too good! Examples:

    The Berserk, 6.2.1, has amphibious assault (cool quality) and replaces the longbowman(4.1.1).
    Isn't that too much! That is 2 points up on the attack, 1 up on the defence plus the amphibious assault. It might be very expensive though, I don't know. Beware of the berserks.

    The Numidian Mercenary, 2.3.1, replaces the spearman(1.2.1)! Who would want to be the greeks if this has the same defence plus 1 extra attack, it makes for a super UU.

    Then you have the Gallic Swordsman 3.2.2, I know it is just 1 up on the move, but imagine (for those that do the horseman or swordsman rush) to be the celts, you would be invincable, plus they have my fav traits, religious and militiristic. It will be my fav civ I think, suits my play style.

    Then you have some units that just suck, well just one now that I think about it, The Keshik 4.2.2. and replaces the night 4.2.2, I hate those units where you don't need a resource to build it and that is their only good quality.

    So what do you think? Are some of the new UU's unbalanced, too good?
     
  2. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk The Builder

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    At first glance, I think they are unbalanced, but I think I'll wait to see how they play out before I decide.
     
  3. RobOz

    RobOz Whatchoo lookin at?

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    Homie -
    I could be wrong, but I think I remember the Firaxians mentioning that they were significantly more expensive. Something in reference to them saying that they are fun, but expensive units...

    *Shrug* I guess we'll know in a week or two.
     
  4. Yoda Power

    Yoda Power ✫✫✫✫✫✫✫

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    i think the berserk is unbalanced, but not the others. btw a knight is 4,3,2 not 4,2,2
     
  5. Homie

    Homie Anti-Lefty

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    That's true, my bad, well that just makes the Mongolian UU even worse. Maybe it is very cheap, but you'll need a lot of them to take a city as the defender in that city would be upgraded when he kills the Keshiks, plus it will be costly to employ many Keshiks instead of the fewer knights you would need to take a city.
     
  6. warpstorm

    warpstorm Yumbo? Yumbo!

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    What? You would need the exact same number. It's the 4 that is used when you attack. In this case cheaper would be better.
     
  7. Sultan Bhargash

    Sultan Bhargash Trickster Reincarnated

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    UUs that seem unbalanced are actually balanced by the cost of building them, which seems kind of yucky...
     
  8. cgannon64

    cgannon64 BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!

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    :goodjob: Right. Like in the case of Gallic Swordsmen (3.2.2) and Iroquois Mounted Warriors (3.1.2): if the MW is significantly cheaper, I'd rather have the MW. The only unit I think might be unbalancing is Beserks. I mean, those things could be useful until the mid-Industrial age, and they are going up against 3 or 4 defenders!

    CG
     
  9. tcjsavannah

    tcjsavannah Wow, it's been a while...

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    uh, Savannah :)
    So the Vikings will be the champion civ of the archapeligo maps, since in my latest games, almost all the islands are defended by spearmen or, at the very toughest, riflemen - a berserker in an even fight with riflemen -with- amphibious assault? Very deadly.
     
  10. sumthinelse

    sumthinelse civ investigator

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    But the vikings are expansionist, and so need to keep opening goody huts to take advantage of the expansionist trait. Since it takes a while to research mapmaking (which you need to get a trireme), they could be stuck on an island for quite a while.
     
  11. sumthinelse

    sumthinelse civ investigator

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    Questions about the new UUs:

    According to http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3infocenter.shtml#ptw

    1) The spanish conquistador does not replace anything?????

    2) The korean UU is a cannon-type unit. So how can it win a combat unless you use the editor? Can it start a golden age if it destroys a building?
     
  12. joespaniel

    joespaniel Unescorted Settler

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    I dont think its unbalanced at all.

    The Vikings should be dominant in the mid-age. :hammer:
    They wont be able to build many of those, nor afford upgrades.
    If it upgrades from archer at all. :hmm:

    As for the Koreans, the cannon is no different from England or America's UU.
    Personaly, I set them to lethal bombard, so they can start a GA. ;)
     
  13. warpstorm

    warpstorm Yumbo? Yumbo!

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    1. In one of the chats Firaxis said that conquistador replace Explorer.

    2. It can't.
     
  14. Crazy Jerome

    Crazy Jerome Warlord

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    Just guessing here, but I wonder if some of the decisions involved in the UUs had as much to do with flavor as balance. Doesn't a "horde" of mongol horsemen make sense? And doesn't a couple of beserks jumping off the tireme for a fearsome raid fit?
    ;)
     
  15. tcjsavannah

    tcjsavannah Wow, it's been a while...

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    uh, Savannah :)
    sumthinelse - true, the Vikings are expansionist, but if the Berserker UU does replace Longbowman, then Vikings should have MapMaking (Ancient Era) long before Invention (Middle Ages)

    I just think a six attack amphibious assault unit when most people will have, at best, a four-defense musketman for the middle ages is potentially dominant. And yes, I'm looking forward to playing it a couple of times. The Vikings were one of my favorite Civs to play in II.:king:
     
  16. Silverflame

    Silverflame OBJECTION!

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    The problem about having a "horde" of Mongols is that there will be unit costs, too.
     
  17. Sultan Bhargash

    Sultan Bhargash Trickster Reincarnated

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    dont forget also they balance the civs with traits - I believe the stronger units occur in civs with the "weak" trait of expansionism.
     
  18. Lt. 'Killer' M.

    Lt. 'Killer' M. Deity

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    forget all the **** about balancing via cost - the RNG is just too 'r' to make that option viable! With doubled HP it may work out, but as it is I find that almost 50% of combat results have a probability of occurrence of less than 30% :( SO build those extra expensive units and win outright or die - whatever strategy you use (even none).....
     
  19. Squirrel

    Squirrel Warlord

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    Exactly. And also, the Vikings are militaristic, which means that their success relies on combat, and on an archipelago map it might take a long time before they find someone to fight.
     
  20. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    "balance by cost" is not relevant as long as all units will cost the same to support.
    Will PTW allow to put individual cost for each unit ?
     

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