New Version - April 20th (4/20)

[ridjack]

Even with my military and infrastructure stable, for some reason my unhappiness due to poverty is really bad. I even have a 10% gold bonus in all cities from silk monopoly. This is the first game I've ever payed where I've had to actually focus pop on gold to help brace the unhappiness spike. Something specifically from the poverty side of things seems off.

Seconded. I just had an Austrian game where I'd been focusing GPT essentially the entire game, +200 GPT when most other civs were in double digits at best (a couple negative and one VERY negative), and still once I hit renaissance/industrial I went from +20 happy to ~ -8 in one turn. More than half from poverty.

 

[tu_79]

Seconded. I just had an Austrian game where I'd been focusing GPT essentially the entire game, +200 GPT when most other civs were in double digits at best (a couple negative and one VERY negative), and still once I hit renaissance/industrial I went from +20 happy to ~ -8 in one turn. More than half from poverty.

I'm not having any problem with poverty. Boredom, on the other hand, is rampant in my empire. I blame the last 50 turns I expent focusing on growth (I had a few chained WLTKD).

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Poverty really is absolutely nuts. Come Renaissance everything's squalor, and even in eras whenever I fight a war, I find I get a damage boost from the AI being unhappy. The AI also gets a damage boost because I'm unhappy. The unhappiness was a bit crazy even a version before, how come warlord AI from the tests handles happiness better than the one I see on Emperor? I play on Epic and it never was perfect, but it wasn't that crazy before. It was often unfun how deep and steep the unhappiness increases were and probably more than half the time I fought unhappy AI on Emperor for at least 6 months, but now I think every war either me or my enemy was unhappy, and most often both me and my enemy. Sometimes -20+ unhappiness. Late game is being slowed down by unhappiness so far, and I'm outpolicing AI by three policies now thanks to my religion, wonders and Poland. I even have Copper that definitely helps my development, doubly so now that I took Imperialism. Renaissance brings a huge spike, so does industrial. If I lack Production to build the Bank, Custom House, Grocer, Aqueduct, Constabulary, etc fast, I'm in a bad spot.

You better keep puppets puppets unless they have at least two or three of the Bank, Custom House, Grocer, Aqueduct buildings come renaissance. Otherwise you're looking at 4/5 unhappiness from poverty alone, and that's if you're a leader. Even Ducal Stable mixed with Open Sky and 2/3 Fealty pastures (that's 7 Gold per tile, 8 if sheep) does little, Markets do absolutely nothing and cannot remove even 1 unhappiness, so do Lighthouses. Courthouses can hurt way more than occupied status, too.

 

[andersw]

Poverty really is absolutely nuts. Come Renaissance everything's squalor, and even in eras whenever I fight a war, I find I get a damage boost from the AI being unhappy. The AI also gets a damage boost because I'm unhappy. The unhappiness was a bit crazy even a version before, how come warlord AI from the tests handles happiness better than the one I see on Emperor? I play on Epic and it never was perfect, but it wasn't that crazy before. It was often unfun how deep and steep the unhappiness increases were and probably more than half the time I fought unhappy AI on Emperor for at least 6 months, but now I think every war either me or my enemy was unhappy, and most often both me and my enemy. Sometimes -20+ unhappiness. Late game is being slowed down by unhappiness so far, and I'm outpolicing AI by three policies now thanks to my religion, wonders and Poland. I even have Copper that definitely helps my development, doubly so now that I took Imperialism. Renaissance brings a huge spike, so does industrial. If I lack Production to build the Bank, Custom House, Grocer, Aqueduct, Constabulary, etc fast, I'm in a bad spot.

You better keep puppets puppets unless they have at least two or three of the Bank, Custom House, Grocer, Aqueduct buildings come renaissance. Otherwise you're looking at 4/5 unhappiness from poverty alone, and that's if you're a leader. Even Ducal Stable mixed with Open Sky and 2/3 Fealty pastures (that's 7 Gold per tile, 8 if sheep) does little, Markets do absolutely nothing and cannot remove even 1 unhappiness, so do Lighthouses. Courthouses can hurt way more than occupied status, too.

Ahh so the AI is also hit very hard from that early industrial happiness plug?

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Ahh so the AI is also hit very hard from that early industrial happiness plug?

I don't mean industrial even. In my current game, I've had several wars - two with Germany (both in ancient), several with Carthage together with France, then one against France.
Wars with Germany, ancient era - nothing special, I don't remember if anyone got below 0%. Very, very early game.
War with Carthage, classical (she declared on France, I declared on her, became Nappy's friend) - she had - several % of unhappiness after a few turns. I had around 0.
War with Carthage, together with French Champagne, late classical (everyone), me ranging from 5 to slight - before happy Castles, she went to several minus happiness as evidenced by her troops
Last moments war with Carthage (medieval/early renaissance) - me from 0 to -20+, her -something but nothing rebelled.

War with France (why didn't you make me a proposition exceptionell Napoleon?), him mid/late medieval, me late medieval/super early renaissance - me -5 to -20 (had to expend Leaning Tower on a Golden Age Artist to get to -5 so my ex-German puppet didn't rebel, made it feel like a waste), France -20+ even before I took the one city I could conquer. One of his cities later turned into Mombasa.
Next war with Napoleon - will try after I load the game. I will have Winged Hussars and +1 Happy constabulray soon so he better get his three Musketeers out because I think I'll have stable +happiness.

 

[tu_79]

1866 in my game right now. -19 happiness. Tradition with just 4 cities, no puppets. I was at 0 happiness for a while until William declared war on me. It's mostly poverty and boredom. I didn't experience that unhappiness with so many few cities ever, not even at war.

 

[andersw]

1866 in my game right now. -19 happiness. Tradition with just 4 cities, no puppets. I was at 0 happiness for a while until William declared war on me. It's mostly poverty and boredom. I didn't experience that unhappiness with so many few cities ever, not even at war.

That sounds plainly wrong, I mean when I have had those big happiness drops that was in big empires (20+ cities), sure I had most wonders which one would think counter act some but no.
4 cities even if they're big sounds very unforgiving for a -19 drop.

I found the thread for logging so I'll try turn it on for my next game.

 

[CleverAdvisor]

I havnt played vox poli multiplayer in over a year. Last i heard barbarians were causing desyncs in multiplayer. This this an issue at all currently?

 

[Deadstarre]

if theres a happiness problem i like increasing found natural wonder happiness as an offset =)

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

It's even worse than I thought. I have all the buildings in many cities, one has a guild with worked specs, Boredom. Illiteracy. Poverty. Danger. Only my capital doesn't feel these because I focused many wonders in there. Every tech increases my unhappiness by about 5, and there's nothing I can do but build the buildings... Which fails in the end because they're slowly not enough, the cities that were like 0/1 unhappiness from some sources give one more. Mid/Late game was pretty bad for a few months, but now it's reached a new level. If that's not enough, this patch also made social policies slower for no reason, so even getting to stuff that helps you remove the unhappiness is slower and luxuries are now awful. I can hardly afford puppets at 20 cities, I don't know how a bigger empire would be manageable.

Like seriously? I have a city with a Church (+2 Culture, - Boredom), Artist Guild (worked both spots), Inspiration (7-8 Culture), every building available and some buffed (grand temple/parthenon), I went Authority for +2C, Fealty for a bit of Culture and Boredom reduction, have +4 Culture from Barracks + Armoury, and somehow that city has 1 boredom, that and other problems? How am I meant to counter unhappiness that just exists despite doing nothing wrong when the primary way to get rid of it is barely worth my time, social policies are harder to get and the scaling is crazy? I'm at -5 Happiness with 3 policies more than the second best guy, almost perfect infrastucture aside from two cities that are heavy drains, and that's all while I have Imperialism-buffed Amber, which makes it provide... 10 Happiness + whatever the luxury grants, probably 2. This is just wrong, getting the constabulary policy did nothing because I got a new tech around the same time. My happiness only got worse.

That sounds plainly wrong, I mean when I have had those big happiness drops that was in big empires (20+ cities), sure I had most wonders which one would think counter act some but no.
4 cities even if they're big sounds very unforgiving for a -19 drop.

I found the thread for logging so I'll try turn it on for my next game.

I have 20 cities. Other guys on my continent had around 8 each (except Germany who had 3 at most), but I took a few.

 

[Gokudo01]

I rolled back i prefer warmonger meta ^^

 

[ridjack]

I rolled back i prefer warmonger meta ^^

I'm about ready to do the same. I'm loving the changes to chopping placement, but happiness is definitely way wonky (for player and AI as far as I can tell), and the amount of city revolts is out of control. Revolting cities has always been pretty damn rare in my experience, and never before ideologies; in this latest patch, my recent Austria game had the number of revolts in the double digits before China got the first and only ideology right before winning her CV in the Industrial era.

 

[Infixo]

City Revolt issue
It seems that there's a nasty bug in the code that corrupts internal game data and save files. You will most likely get a CTD when trying to load such a save file.
The bug happens when a city revolts and becomes a City-State. If you save a game after such an event, you won't be able to reload it again.
If you have such a situation, you may try to use a temp fix posted in GitHub https://github.com/LoneGazebo/Community-Patch-DLL/issues/4247. However, you need to reload a game to a state before that unfortunate city revolt and then continue playing (i.e. you still won't be able to reload an already corrupted save file).

 

[theMisterRud]

I do share similar experiences on happiness: it seams that in the last 2 patches happiness management is simply impossible on King (can't git more gud than that ): I play a pretty infrastructure-focused playstyle and even if I'm leading/almost leading in culture and science, there seams to be no counterplay, as infrastructure is all there.

i wonder if it is connected with city management changes ? I know I have to rely more havily on manual control

 

[andersw]

It's even worse than I thought. I have all the buildings in many cities, one has a guild with worked specs, Boredom. Illiteracy. Poverty. Danger. Only my capital doesn't feel these because I focused many wonders in there. Every tech increases my unhappiness by about 5, and there's nothing I can do but build the buildings... Which fails in the end because they're slowly not enough, the cities that were like 0/1 unhappiness from some sources give one more. Mid/Late game was pretty bad for a few months, but now it's reached a new level. If that's not enough, this patch also made social policies slower for no reason, so even getting to stuff that helps you remove the unhappiness is slower and luxuries are now awful. I can hardly afford puppets at 20 cities, I don't know how a bigger empire would be manageable.

Like seriously? I have a city with a Church (+2 Culture, - Boredom), Artist Guild (worked both spots), Inspiration (7-8 Culture), every building available and some buffed (grand temple/parthenon), I went Authority for +2C, Fealty for a bit of Culture and Boredom reduction, have +4 Culture from Barracks + Armoury, and somehow that city has 1 boredom, that and other problems? How am I meant to counter unhappiness that just exists despite doing nothing wrong when the primary way to get rid of it is barely worth my time, social policies are harder to get and the scaling is crazy? I'm at -5 Happiness with 3 policies more than the second best guy, almost perfect infrastucture aside from two cities that are heavy drains, and that's all while I have Imperialism-buffed Amber, which makes it provide... 10 Happiness + whatever the luxury grants, probably 2. This is just wrong, getting the constabulary policy did nothing because I got a new tech around the same time. My happiness only got worse.



I have 20 cities. Other guys on my continent had around 8 each (except Germany who had 3 at most), but I took a few.

Thats what my game looked like too, having almost every building available most wonders and several monopolies and still getting not -1 but several points of deficit in every section.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I rolled back i prefer warmonger meta ^^

I think I will wait for a patch before playing more, just going to play other games in the meantime. It's impossible to be big in this one. I don't get how the warlord AI have supposedly been doing better than Emperor AIs and apparently are still doing better than Emperor AIs I've seen have been doing for more than half a year. I was expecting the exact opposite changes than what the patch did, as in making the policies come a tiny bit faster and the scaling being tuned down, but the opposite occured.

I even have logs, but only from turn 330 on Epic because this is when I turned logs on. Apparently france had -40+ unhappiness before its city rebelled, Japan has always around -15, Russia -22 (biggest competitor), Morrocco has more and it's turning into a problem. (concerning logs, a weird spike might be around turn 377 as Russia gains 10 happiness because I gave them 5 luxuries so they'd possibly be a threat to Morrocco in the future)

City Revolt issue
It seems that there's a nasty bug in the code that corrupts internal game data and save files. You will most likely get a CTD when trying to load such a save file.
The bug happens when a city revolts and becomes a City-State. If you save a game after such an event, you won't be able to reload it again.
If you have such a situation, you may try to use a temp fix posted in GitHub https://github.com/LoneGazebo/Community-Patch-DLL/issues/4247. However, you need to reload a game to a state before that unfortunate city revolt and then continue playing (i.e. you still won't be able to reload an already corrupted save file).

If that's true then I won't be able to continue this game, but it's not a problem. I didn't want to play more anyway.

 

[Gazebo]

Everyone needs to chill out about happiness. If there's something awry I'll fix it. If the community's not happy with the balance we'll alter it. Nothing's set in stone.

G

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Everyone needs to chill out about happiness. If there's something awry I'll fix it. If the community's not happy with the balance we'll alter it. Nothing's set in stone.

G

Grab the logs in my post above, maybe they'll be of use.

 

[Gazebo]

Grab the logs in my post above, maybe they'll be of use.

Looking at city happiness now and...I see that there's an error in my calculation. I've been base-100ing it, when I should have been multiplying by the total number of techs. It's not a huge issue (and it is savegame compatible), but it explains why my model is not lined up with what's going on. Hotfix (coming soon) will bring unhappiness down a bit.

G

 

[ridjack]

Everyone needs to chill out about happiness. If there's something awry I'll fix it. If the community's not happy with the balance we'll alter it. Nothing's set in stone.

G

I mean... I'm not like, like, raising pitchforks or anything over here, just considering a rollback to the previous version until y'all figure out what's going on because my games since the patch have simply not been fun for me.

Hotfix (coming soon) will bring unhappiness down a bit.

But this, of course, is what I would try first.