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New Version - February 17th (2-17)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Feb 17, 2019.

  1. Rekk

    Rekk Emperor

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    Everyone plays above the global median, so of course "no one" noticed. From what I understand, if the player is not near the top by the end of renaissance, it's a lost game. I surmise that no one paid attention to any of the modifiers before the empire median change.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019
    tu_79 likes this.
  2. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Huh? It doesn't matter if you are above or below the global median, the empire modifier always shows...
     
  3. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    Yes, but with a global median, your able to bring most of your cities above the median and negate a big part of the unhappiness the empire modificator is generating. Something thats now simply impossible by nature.
    Cause it worked on global median didnt mean it works on nation median.
     
    telelavoro likes this.
  4. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    That doesn't change anything about what I said.
     
  5. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    Yes, but it makes a difference if Iam always hunting a moving goal, cause more efficiency in all my cities also always rise the median, or if Iam able to compensate the empire modificator by beeing far above the median and didnt notice him that much.
     
  6. Rekk

    Rekk Emperor

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    The modifiers, including empire, worked off the global median, so if the majority of your cities were above the global median, the modifiers didn't make as much as an impact as they do now. So no one really paid attention to them. Possibly most people who were having problems were those with low system literacy and therefore couldn't properly establish what what causing their issues.

    I definitely didn't spend much time thinking about how all the modifiers interact to force the target value much higher than the median.... Because I made sure to get as far as I could above it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  7. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I made no comment on the efficacy of the bonus, but it's also not a new bonus. "No one batted an eye" = everyone accepted it without comment. That's...that's it.

    G
     
  8. Rekk

    Rekk Emperor

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    Despite them being around for months, I didn't notice the Empire and City modifiers until this version.
     
    telelavoro likes this.
  9. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Agree. With all you said.
     
  10. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    Fact is, with the current system, going beyond 20 annexed/owned cities in standard is for a normal player impossible or atleast very difficult (unless you are @Minh Le ;)) That's for me not an acceptable state of the game. :(
     
    Enrico Swagolo likes this.
  11. Snipergw

    Snipergw Chieftain

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    20 is already an insane amount of cities to micromanage, and an owned city is in most cases superior to a puppet/vassal. Therefore, players will feel pushed to keep more cities. This is not good. Encouraging puppets and vassals is good, 20 cities is massive. You are asking to play a historical game where basically control the entire Mongol Empire + half of Rome and you control it all directly from your capital. Both for gameplay and immersion reasons the usage of vassals and puppets are superior, and I welcome any system that encourages these.
     
    tu_79 likes this.
  12. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    Yesterday I wanted to try an artificially reduced median by massivly growing with the help of India UA. To achieve this, I started a standard communitas map with 10 civ (instead of 8) and 18 CS and used ingame editor to check the area. In several restarts I spawned lonely on a continent with enough space to peacefully found atleast 10+ cities without competition (and not only 1 time even 15+ by island chains). In the last presented map from Gazebo, there was a Russia with 19 cities and I believe a Germany with 14 cities. Communitas map was integrated in this patch for a reason. If people think this map is balanced and represent best for VP and play it with standard setting, people having 10+ cities each will be normal.
     
  13. Downfall77

    Downfall77 Chieftain

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    I'm aware that work is being done on fixing the happiness, but I wanna emphasize just how bad it is for me. I love the community patch, but I've consistently played on a very old build where defense was in the equation and inspiration is broken af, as well as doing 2 quests can easily net you a long term ally on marathon. The build itself has a lot of balance issues, where there's no reason to take many believes and policies, but it doesn't deal with the unbearable happiness issue this patch does where you have to micromanage every city to not grow and not focus on yeilds you actually want because your citizens will be pissed off. On average I'd have 0 happiness excluding stupid late game 100 happiness freedom games. Even going wide as Japan, i'd only go to around -30 if i made a few too many cities or went warmongering. The game was kinda easy, but it was a challenge that felt rewarding if played on immortal which I did, where it felt like I wasn't punished for chasing more population or more of a particular yield, only being a problem if i settled a few too many cities.

    I think why this really pisses me off is that negative events come around much much more when unhappy, and it makes the game incredibly unfun to have 1 city at turn 30 and watch as you dip into -5 and suffer droughts and the like. I know this isn't very constructive on building a solution, but I really want to see a modern version of the patch where I don't suffer incredible penalties for playing around halting growth or working tiles I don't value because otherwise I get punished. I've been playing civ 6 exclusively for a few months now, but I really look forward to a version where I can enjoy the newer features and balances without the annoying happiness, good luck.
     
  14. vyyt

    vyyt Deity

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    @Downfall77 , the very previous version 1/29 is what you are asking for.
     
  15. MorphBer

    MorphBer Warlord

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    Finished my Emperor Poland game and lost a civgame for the first time after being in decent position at around Medievial/Renaissance (about 2nd behind Korea and slightly ahead o Egypt after counquering my 2 neighbors Brazil and Sweden, Korea won cultural but could have chosen any path). I had do fight happyness for a long time midgame and lategame and it was quite frustrating tbh, I really put all my emphasize to get away from -30 to -10 (choose Industry to help with poverty/better infrastructure, built landmarks, popped G-Musicans an Merchants for WLKD early, stopped growt). I would go back to +10 to +30, looesend up a bit on happiness let some cities grow a pop and was down very fast again. Then all of a sudden I was at +60 and I didnt even really know why... DOW, GA/WLKD ending also seems to cause some crazy fluctuations (I fell this especially true between -10 and +10 because if you loose happyness there it will lower all your yields thus resulting in more unhappyness cause a frustrating downward spiral).

    Maybe I annexed to many cities but I was under the impression that if you have a city in a decent spot, that you would settle yourself if it was empty , should allways be annexed when you can build a courthouse there. so this was the wrong Idea?
     
  16. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    How may owned/annexed cities did you have in the first place, when unhappiness start to be a problem? Map size? How many annexed/owned at the end of the game?
     
  17. matlajs

    matlajs King

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    I have one technical question. Do the english spies operate on 4th level, or 3 rd level is a cap?
     
  18. Rekk

    Rekk Emperor

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    They will effectively get to 4th level because of the UA, but the UI won't explicitly show that.
     
    matlajs likes this.
  19. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Emperor

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    So are people largely having happiness issues when they go too wide or go too tall? Isn't that exactly what the happiness system is designed to punish?

    I didn't have any happiness problems in my "wide" Carthage game with ~8 cities. I didn't even have to think about happiness- no prioritizing happiness buildings, nothing in my religion focusing on happiness, no specific policy choices around happiness. If anything happiness was too easy.

    If I was setting out to get 20 non-puppet cities I would probably plan on addressing happiness as part of my strategy. If I didn't have a plan for happiness in that scenario then shouldn't I suffer the consequences?
     
  20. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    I’m in industrial with an Indonesia play through and I have had 0 happiness trouble all game. I’ve been mostly peaceful, but I haven’t dipped below 20:c5happy: since medieval, and have spent most of my time in 50-60:c5happy:.

    Granted, indonesia’s UA and UB do make happiness pretty trivial, and people are reporting unhappiness swings mainly in modern and later, but that’s where I’m at now

    The AI left a ton of land unclaimed for an exceedingly long amount of time. Egypt and Brazil only have 3 cities, Huns and Rome only founded 4 each. Brazil left a good spot open for me on the opposite side of the continent until early renaissance, when I finally snapped it up. Civ’s on the other continent (Shoshone, Iroquois, Korea) generally let their border blobs edge out any settling spots, but haven’t done virtually any backfilling at all
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019

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