New Version - January 15th (1-15)

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I think it was likely too harsh at 1 per 4 especially since this happened around the time yet another much harsher happiness rework was made, but at 1 per 3 it's definitely so. So they will basically cost 2-3 :c5angry: and 10+ :c5gold: for just 1:c5culture:, 1:c5faith:, 2:c5science:, all that without being truly free of 7% less tech/policy cost (the first puppet does increase costs from what I've read, but the next puppets after that don't). Sure, there's resources to consider, they might be useful to get that monopoly at a "cheaper" price, but that's very expensive. Imperialism's mandatory for any higher quantity of puppets which is perhaps okay, but at this point maybe the Puppets should start generating happiness from buildings and policies, together with perhaps a reduced maintenance cost. Razing seems preferable to keeping them.

Just looked, I think it was a bad merge or something, as the time where the value changes on github doesn't match up with a patchnote (and I'd have listed that change). I'll revert, it's savegame compatible.

Re: early unhappiness, I've considered putting +1 happiness back on the Colosseum, it'd come at a very useful time, moreso than the Zoo.

G
 
Poor Zoo, being the only Building in the line not giving +1 :c5happy:.

Happiness is very hard to manage early game. Much easier to accept the 6 :c5unhappy: for a while, the Cities will be improved eventually.
 
Just looked, I think it was a bad merge or something, as the time where the value changes on github doesn't match up with a patchnote (and I'd have listed that change). I'll revert, it's savegame compatible.

Re: early unhappiness, I've considered putting +1 happiness back on the Colosseum, it'd come at a very useful time, moreso than the Zoo.

G

I like going back to +2 happy luxuries myself. I think it both helps early game happiness the most, but also makes luxuries more attractive in trade.
 
I like going back to +2 happy luxuries myself. I think it both helps early game happiness the most, but also makes luxuries more attractive in trade.

I'm reluctant because, in testing, it threw things off depending on the mapscript, but I defer to the people on this one. If that's what you all would prefer, let's do that.
 
I'm reluctant because, in testing, it threw things off depending on the mapscript, but I defer to the people on this one. If that's what you all would prefer, let's do that.

I will use your line around player engagement G. I can help address my happiness with interaction with the other Civs (trade) or CS (ally luxury benefits).

Right now at +1 that interaction isn't really worth it unless I need it for a WLTKD. But at +2, its worth the focus.
 
I'm reluctant because, in testing, it threw things off depending on the mapscript, but I defer to the people on this one. If that's what you all would prefer, let's do that.

Adding +1 happiness to the Colosseum is a good step. It made me think about the state of VP’s happiness in general.

VP is not for the casual player, but it is also not mainly for the obsessives prominent on the forum. In that wide range, I think happiness is viewed by a majority as the single most complicated and unenjoyable aspect of the mod.

Responses to happiness tend to fall into three broad categories: those who have no problem with it; those who wrestle it to a draw, and those who complain it ruins their games. The ideal would be to ease the latter two groups’ dissatisfactions, while not dumbing down the efforts of the first group.

For those chronically complaining about it, the happiness system is still too punitive, if only in that it has periodic huge dives. No one likes that, and few think it’s fair. Why not smooth that out, even if it requires simplifying the system?

Even for those who wrestle with it, the happiness system seems more complicated than any other aspect of the mod — and it’s complicated to reduce a negative, rather than accentuate a positive. Tackling unhappiness with hammers or gold should be more direct, with the cost being expense (example: colosseums really, really help, but cost a lot more). But what should be viewed as unacceptable is literally being unable to pull out of a downward spiral.

Growth is one of the main causes of unhappiness. This is a mixed bag, because without a doubt, growth is fun. Like everything else, it needs a counter, and unhappiness fits the bill. The ideal could be to effectively tax virtually unlimited growth, so that the advantages incrementally head toward zero in most cases… but not to certain failure.

One of the problems of easing up on unhappiness is that positive happiness then explodes. As a simple solution, I’d propose limiting happiness… a ceiling of +50, say. After that, you get no benefit from it. (But if you hit a rough patch, that unaccounted cushion will keep you at 50 longer than it would someone else.)

I picked +50 arbitrarily, but the conceptual point is that a number beyond that is due to unfair AI or elite human advantages, and warps other aspects of the game — culture and science as well as happiness, by creating a runaway spiral. (The Maya’s 89 happiness feeds their cultural lead, and vice-versa).

Maybe stating the obvious, happiness heights could also be reduced if AI handicaps were reduced, as the mod grows closer to its ideal of a truly competitive AI. Warfare is the exception here to a degree, and starting promotions helps address the imbalance.
 
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I will use your line around player engagement G. I can help address my happiness with interaction with the other Civs (trade) or CS (ally luxury benefits).

Right now at +1 that interaction isn't really worth it unless I need it for a WLTKD. But at +2, its worth the focus.


Hm?

And I agree, it is more engaging. As I said, it's a little bit more volatile, but I'd prefer it if the internal happiness mechanics were slightly less important than they are now. It allows for players to have a bit more creativity with their empire and build if they're not constantly hamstrung by unhappiness.

G
 
Just looked, I think it was a bad merge or something, as the time where the value changes on github doesn't match up with a patchnote (and I'd have listed that change). I'll revert, it's savegame compatible.

Re: early unhappiness, I've considered putting +1 happiness back on the Colosseum, it'd come at a very useful time, moreso than the Zoo.

G

I think 1 for 5 would be the best. It was 1 for 6, then 1 for 4, but it was never 1 for 5.

Hm?

And I agree, it is more engaging. As I said, it's a little bit more volatile, but I'd prefer it if the internal happiness mechanics were slightly less important than they are now. It allows for players to have a bit more creativity with their empire and build if they're not constantly hamstrung by unhappiness.

G

it is so vollatile that it does not have a half-life but quarter-life so we must observe with hasty
 
Hotfix version inbound:

Code:
AI/Bugfixes:

Fixed a DP/Vassal quirk w/r/t DOWs in specific circumstances
Improved AI defense building selection rate, esp. for border/danger cities
Fixed clipping UI issue in EUI for large diplo modifiers by removing diplo modifiers during war for city banners
Fixed China's UA not 100% removing from cities in all circumstances on era change (we can discuss the balance later, but it was intended to be 100%).

Balance (savegame compatible)

Flipped Science from Coffee/Lapis to improvement, off of terrain yield (finally got some definitive AI evidence of this issue in two games)
Fixed typo in happiness divisor for puppets (was /3, should be /4)
Bumped luxury base happiness to 2 (was 1)

Balance (only works if you haven't built it yet)
Ironworks: gives 2 Iron when built.

Link: https://mega.nz/#F!DMsxkDYI!zSpR9CHpmAfWyIvMXaN3pw

Savegame compatible, as noted above.

Cheers,
Gazebo
 
What's the connection between citrus and science? Don't tell me it's because vitamin C improves brain performance.
Europeans learned about citrus's importance through scurvy? Citrus is vulnerable to bugs and whatnot so they learn more about pests? They learn more about tropical climates in the jungle where you find Citrus (at least in Civ....)?

I think Amber makes more sense to be more science related, but balance comes first.
 
beware of the city state empires!

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