He does know about it. No further comment.
New Version - January 29th (1-29)
- Thread starter Gazebo
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Gokudo01
Emperor
Has nobody else got those insane happiness issue !!!??
Enrico Swagolo
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2013
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I've had them too. I remember conquering Morocco's capital and second best city (tradition, both had GPTI/etc), built everything there and it wasn't all that bad... Except I found out if I don't tell it to stop growing, almost every single pop of the 20 pop city will be unhappy. Similar with his second one. Chateauxes, putting Great Works there didn't help, neither did my UIs, or trade routes. In fact that game, despite me balling out of control already, I've had to tell most of my cities to stop growing at one point, only to let them grow after more policies or another building or two of a kind were unlocked. Sure, this city is an anomaly, but I've had 10-15 pop cities that i also had to stop growth because I don't feel like having a super unhappy empire.
After some time it just got better, but were I not in a crazy snowball, it'd not be so good. Poverty is nuts. The more cities, the harder to handle.
Real life in a nutshell.
BiteInTheMark
Deity
I only want to notice, your need calculation seems wrong. I was wondering why those values are so high.
If you add the need increases, you come to a normal value of 74%...... and ADDING the need DECREASES gives you that amount of high need modifiers (+144% instead of +74%).
dylansan
Warlord
If I understand what you're saying, that sounds super broken. I was just about to start a game, but are you saying everything that is supposed to decrease needs is actually increasing them?
I don't think I could play a game knowing that those positive effects were actually bugged to be bad. I guess I'll test it to confirm.
EDIT: I started a game and it seems to make sense. Unlike the screenshot, my modifiers that decrease needs start at -10%, so my 29% needs are reduced to 19%, as I assume is intended. I guess the question is why Gokudo01's modifiers are positive 70% when I'd imagine anything that affects that stat would make it lower. Maybe a mod is using them incorrectly? It's not clear where those numbers are coming from in my game, so it's hard to tell what's going on.
I don't think I could play a game knowing that those positive effects were actually bugged to be bad. I guess I'll test it to confirm.
EDIT: I started a game and it seems to make sense. Unlike the screenshot, my modifiers that decrease needs start at -10%, so my 29% needs are reduced to 19%, as I assume is intended. I guess the question is why Gokudo01's modifiers are positive 70% when I'd imagine anything that affects that stat would make it lower. Maybe a mod is using them incorrectly? It's not clear where those numbers are coming from in my game, so it's hard to tell what's going on.
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Gokudo01
Emperor
Except vox populi, I am using :
Less ice on map
Reforestation
RAS ( really advanced setup )
city view EUI 11
VP promo icon
I don't think any mods have got anything to do with the happiness system
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I can confirm similar issues with poverty unhappiness in two recent games.
In the lead up to and around the mid game unhappiness from poverty escalates rapidly and becomes the greatest source of unhappiness by a country mile. This is even with working multiple merchant specialists, having the relevant poverty reduction buildings and towns/villages. The experience was far worse when conquering and going wide.
In the lead up to and around the mid game unhappiness from poverty escalates rapidly and becomes the greatest source of unhappiness by a country mile. This is even with working multiple merchant specialists, having the relevant poverty reduction buildings and towns/villages. The experience was far worse when conquering and going wide.
glider1
Deity
Needs calculations do seem strangely working:
In my capital the UI says:
Factors that increase needs:
Is Capital +25%
technology +43%
city size: +25
empire size: +9%
Factors that decrease needs:
Basic needs: 54%
Gold need: 44%
Science need: 64%
Culture need: 64%
Religion mod: 82%
Total need modifiers:
Basic needs: +156%
Gold needs: +146%
Science needs: +166%
Culture needs: +166%
The total at the moment is +25+43+25+9+54=156% for basic needs
Really unclear have to say.
Shouldn't the total be 25+43+25+9-54 = 48% for basic needs?
In my game poverty is huge, religious minorities is really sensitive and spiky even with just two minority followers verses 18 main followers.
In my capital the UI says:
Factors that increase needs:
Is Capital +25%
technology +43%
city size: +25
empire size: +9%
Factors that decrease needs:
Basic needs: 54%
Gold need: 44%
Science need: 64%
Culture need: 64%
Religion mod: 82%
Total need modifiers:
Basic needs: +156%
Gold needs: +146%
Science needs: +166%
Culture needs: +166%
The total at the moment is +25+43+25+9+54=156% for basic needs
Really unclear have to say.
Shouldn't the total be 25+43+25+9-54 = 48% for basic needs?
In my game poverty is huge, religious minorities is really sensitive and spiky even with just two minority followers verses 18 main followers.
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dylansan
Warlord
I'm not sure if the factors that decrease needs are meant to be subtracted, or if they're meant to be a negative value. At the start of the game they're all -10% and it works as expected. The question is why that number becomes positive. It sounds like the modifiers from buildings/etc. are positive instead of negative, which would be a pretty serious oversight. It wouldn't be a trivial fix without throwing a ton of balance out the window.
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HorseshoeHermit
20% accurate as usual, Morty
I can tell you that from where I'm standing, it is emphatically not a feature.
CrazyG also points out how this behaviour is holding up his game in a frustrating way. Now I hear there's some exploits with "conquered religions"? What was the point.
At the very least, I'm going to be issuing a pull request when I can turn this mechanic into a toggle, because it is currently enforced at the Community Patch level and is the reason I can't play with, nor recommend, the CP-as-bugfix-suite to anyone in other circles.
It is a bug fix. There were broken mechanics in place already in the vanilla DLL. Spaghetti code. I cleaned it up. Without it, civs don’t know which religion they should try to spread.
Please don’t speak on my behalf.
G
ashendashin
King
- Joined
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- 989
What is it about vanilla that makes other modders(my memory might be off on horseshoe) so aggressively against changes in the CP? Isn't modding API one of the bigger factors?
dylansan
Warlord
Modders abuse bugs to get their unique ideas working. CP patches a lot of those. A notable separate example is JFD's Hitler Germany UU where Great Generals can be expended for Science and it resulted in being zero'ed out.
There's also that one incident where we completely removed Siege Setup for performance and improved AI Logic and that didn't go well with some modders.
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To come back on CrazyG's issue, I was thinking of the following fix:
We could use the ingame counter of great prophet (which I assume does exist since the price of a great prophet is proportional to how many you got) to make it impossible to enhance a religion with your first great prophet. We have to take into account that it is possible to get free great prophet, so maybe we could add a check when a great prophet is born which verifies wether if your prophet counter was already at one and only then unlock the option to enhance. It does leave the situation where you create and enhance a religion with only free great prophets but I can hardly think of such a situation in non-modded vox populi.
All of this remains theoretical since I have no idea whether if it is actually possible to implement.
We could use the ingame counter of great prophet (which I assume does exist since the price of a great prophet is proportional to how many you got) to make it impossible to enhance a religion with your first great prophet. We have to take into account that it is possible to get free great prophet, so maybe we could add a check when a great prophet is born which verifies wether if your prophet counter was already at one and only then unlock the option to enhance. It does leave the situation where you create and enhance a religion with only free great prophets but I can hardly think of such a situation in non-modded vox populi.
All of this remains theoretical since I have no idea whether if it is actually possible to implement.
HorseshoeHermit
20% accurate as usual, Morty
I'm not speaking for you. I"m referring to a user named CrazyG who made a post somewhere around 45 posts ago.
Enrico Swagolo
Deity
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What if the "G" in CrazyG stands for Gazebo and CrazyG is just Gazebo on another account?
Don’t make me angry, I’ll get out my AngryG account!
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