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New Version - July 17th (7-17)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Warlord

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  2. Necamijat

    Necamijat Chieftain

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    Will do.

    EDIT: Done.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
    vyyt, tu_79 and Moi Magnus like this.
  3. Bromar1

    Bromar1 Chieftain

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    See this is the inverse of what I used to do with workshops. Because they had good flat production but no scaling, I often would build workshops in secondary cities where +5 prod was more impactful and not so much in my capital that already has infrastructure.

    Workshops went from being good in secondary cities and situationally good in the capital to good in the capital and bad in secondary cities. Are we supposed to use more ITR to make up for it? What gameplay is this change supposed to promote?
     
  4. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Warlord

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    The thing I fear with China now is that it's kind of a worse version of Carthage-Carthage can get static :c5food:/:c5gold: via Lighthouses and there is no way China will outproduce Carthage in :c5gold: in the early game (or even in the long run).
     
    Arthur Jama, Enrico Swagolo and Hinin like this.
  5. Txurce

    Txurce Warlord

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    If China is no longer "China" but a version of Carthage, I assume it would be because it lost its cultural and growth characteristics. My guess is that if Gazebo's testing showed China losing too much culture, he would have made an adjustment. But we won't know if either of us is right until someone plays it. I'm looking forward to CrazyG's report.

    Whether China is a worse version of Carthage doesn't seem significant, though, because it would still be an above-average civ.
     
  6. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Chieftain

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    For me, the old Workshop was basically just built everywhere. Even if the base 5 production was less impactful in my capital I still built it because my capitals typically build nearly everything anyway and my capital frequently does make use of engineers and Factories.

    I could see skipping the new Workshop in any cities that aren't high pop, aren't sending ITRs, don't have workable forests, don't need later Factories, or don't want to work an engineer. That seems like a pretty reasonably decent building to me with good use but not absolutely necessary in every city. Isn't that the ideal balance for buildings?
     
    Txurce likes this.
  7. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    About 100 turns in, and happiness looks good to me. The +2 makes the early game more manageable, it will hit you when settlers go down, but after developing the cities and connecting luxuries you should be alright.
    I'm playing India first.

    China seems pretty similar to Carthage, overall less gold but a better unique unit. If there are going to be two civs with bonuses to settlers, they shouldn't both be gold focused.
     
    Basilius likes this.
  8. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

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    China was the premier early game civ. Turn 0 culture bonus is easily the best feature of a UA in the game, and it scaled too well based on what you were already going to do. Now, I'd say China's power comes about 150 turns later, when her UB and UU are online. Carthage is all early game.

    The UA was so strong that I had to make sure the UB was as bland as possible to save it from being utterly OP. Now that China's UA is weakened a bit, we can actually think about a more interesting and potent UB for her.


    G
     
    Viralvoid, Necamijat, Hinin and 2 others like this.
  9. SuperNoobCamper

    SuperNoobCamper Chieftain

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    That's a lot of changes to get used to, nonetheless thanks, G.
    Although i really wanted to see some changes to poland which excels at being very mediocre right now, i'm really excited to remove chinaand probably venice from the ban list in my games.
     
  10. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Chieftain

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    If Grocers get +1 Happiness, does the Austrian UB also get that? Regarding Refinement, can we get the +10% :c5culture: during :c5goldenage: Golden Age back now that the +2 specialist no happiness is removed? That policy feels a bit bland now.
     
  11. ridjack

    ridjack Chieftain

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    Out of curiosity, how difficult would it be for me to port the old Venice forward? I've done some relatively minor edits of Civs before, so I theoretically know where all the files and things are located, but I don't know how "tied-in" different parts of VP are to each other. Like, will y'all's custom AI wig out if I just moved old Venice's stuff into new Venice's place?

    (I didn't bother speaking up in the Venice thread because it seemed like I was generally in a minority, but I really dislike the changes to Venice. Even though I generally kept them turned off when I wasn't playing them (for all the same reasons as other people), they were my favorite civ to actually play specifically because of how unique they were, and I feel like they've really lost that uniqueness. With the changes to the MoV, I'm not even sure they're the best OCC civ anymore.)
     
  12. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

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    Not sure how you can say that about Venice – only difference is that they no longer have a UI, but the MoV can still plant a Town like a regular Merchant. So they lost very little in the transition.

    G
     
  13. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

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    The Coffee House should get +1h, it'll be in the hotfix upcoming (merge error).

    Artistry is in a good spot IMO.
     
  14. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

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    Poland does fine for what it is, not every civ has to reinvent the wheel (you do have to invent it at least once, though).

    G
     
  15. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Warlord

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    Some people were throwing out the suggestion to just have the Capital's +1:c5food:/:c5culture: bonus removed. I think that wouldn't be enough personally, but it was an idea.

    Any ideas for China's UB then? Because I think the UA is still mostly early game and the one thing that keeps China interesting mid-game right now is the UU. Carthage has a solid UNW as well, one that I'd argue is probably better than the Paper Maker.

    One idea I have for the UB is to remove the +1 base :c5culture: and +1 :c5gold: per 4 :c5citizen: and have it i instead come with a :greatwork: of Writing that triggers the UA.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  16. SuperNoobCamper

    SuperNoobCamper Chieftain

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    I like poland's UA being a versatile jack of all trades & master of none but i was really excited to try a small buff to the UB making it act like the indonesian UB; spawning a couple of horses on a nearby tile rather than adding a copy.
     
  17. ridjack

    ridjack Chieftain

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    The culture bomb from the MoV was about the only way to acquire a lot of resources in a true OCC.
     
  18. tommytoxen

    tommytoxen Chieftain

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    NICE, time to start a new game, thanks for all your work guys :) can't believe how playable civ 5 still is thanks to you. i'm having a blast lately especially since upping difficulty and learning how to play without cheating (bye bye IGE)
     
  19. Necamijat

    Necamijat Chieftain

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    If you want to have Venice in game, wait for the fix to settled puppets. Although it might not seem great, it impacts the civ rather major/weirdly.
     
  20. tommytoxen

    tommytoxen Chieftain

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    i only ever play as england so dm to me :p

    i'll untick venice from available civs though thanks for heads up, still want them to be able to play as AI
     

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