New Version - July 17th (7-17)

[Enrico Swagolo]

Which map size do you play on again?
If possible in the code (and if it's not already the case!), perhaps the modifier should be dependent on map size, much like the science/culture one.

Standard size. It'd be far worse on large/huge - there used to be a smaller unhappiness penalty on these more than a year ago, but now there isn't, and the amount of cities people will settle there is going to be higher on average.

 

[Stalker0]

Standard size. It'd be far worse on large/huge - there used to be a smaller unhappiness penalty on these more than a year ago, but now there isn't, and the amount of cities people will settle there is going to be higher on average.

I believe buildings like the Castle reduce the empire penalty, so maybe the answer is so further lower on those types of buildings to help combat.

It should also be noted, the way the system is designed there is always going to be X number of cities that generates unsustainable happiness. That is the nature of the math of the system. So at some point, wherever that is, you have to rely on Public Works to get the happiness you need.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I believe buildings like the Castle reduce the empire penalty, so maybe the answer is so further lower on those types of buildings to help combat.

It should also be noted, the way the system is designed there is always going to be X number of cities that generates unsustainable happiness. That is the nature of the math of the system. So at some point, wherever that is, you have to rely on Public Works to get the happiness you need.

Yes, but that just means the system is flawed and needs changes. No public works would save me at that 21 cities/26-28 cities post-fix situation and that's with me having almost all the available wonders at that point, I'd need the Public Works to have global benefits to do much - and the PW were always meant to not be important or mandatory to use. I'd need, dunno, 2 Public Works in each and every city to save me at those 21 cities, and that's never happening considering the cost scales with era and amount of time they were built. I absolutely don't like having cities with great development and buildings that somehow have almost every, if not every, pop unhappy, this makes no sense.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Here I disagree. Before that change, in later eras - pillaging wasn't very interesting (100 g at that point means nothing), and having a route pillaged didn't sting (you would just straight up by another trade unit).

You are right, but don't you think, there is some middle way between 100 gold and 700 gold? Why does the gold for pillaging have to skyrocket from 100 gold to 700 gold in lategame? Why do I have to pay 740 gold for a caravan, if one of those only delier me 20-25 gold, in the worst case with full proxy penalty only 10? Why not middle way?

 

[Kim Dong Un]

Yes, but that just means the system is flawed and needs changes. No public works would save me at that 21 cities/26-28 cities post-fix situation and that's with me having almost all the available wonders at that point, I'd need the Public Works to have global benefits to do much - and the PW were always meant to not be important or mandatory to use. I'd need, dunno, 2 Public Works in each and every city to save me at those 21 cities, and that's never happening considering the cost scales with era and amount of time they were built. I absolutely don't like having cities with great development and buildings that somehow have almost every, if not every, pop unhappy, this makes no sense.

How does the AI deal with going wide? I'm still waiting to see pics or an example of AI winning a domination game with standard continents settings...

How many cities total were captured? What were their populations? How many were puppets? How many vassals? There's a lot of factors, but if there's no blueprint that the AI can even provide, how are we supposed to deal with wide gameplay?

 

[bigcat88]

Can someone post a hotfix file somewhere else? Cant download it from mega

 

[andersw]

You are right, but don't you think, there is some middle way between 100 gold and 700 gold? Why does the gold for pillaging have to skyrocket from 100 gold to 700 gold in lategame? Why do I have to pay 740 gold for a caravan, if one of those only delier me 20-25 gold, in the worst case with full proxy penalty only 10? Why not middle way?

Yes, there is a lot of money from pillaging a caravan, probably a bit too much.

 

[polinices]

Can't download from mega

 

[BiteInTheMark]

If anybody want to know, WHY food/growth in lategame is so damn weak, you only have to look at this picture:

Spoiler The Truth :

Picture was done in very early modern era, 12 cities.

 

[John.B.C]

Did you try verifying integrity of game cache of Civ 5 on Steam?

A reinstall did the job.

 

[ofmiciv5]

You are right, but don't you think, there is some middle way between 100 gold and 700 gold? Why does the gold for pillaging have to skyrocket from 100 gold to 700 gold in lategame? Why do I have to pay 740 gold for a caravan, if one of those only delier me 20-25 gold, in the worst case with full proxy penalty only 10? Why not middle way?

740 is nothing late game. pillaging 700 gold is kinda acceptable. personally i dont mind those gold because it is damn easy to accumulate gold. try putting this in your mind pillaging on medieval days compared to present day. i dont know why all of you complained about that, especially on food. just like gaz said, all so called arm chair expert. in my opinion, just cry baby that wants vox do be done their way. heck just edit it if you dont like. criticizing and giving feedback is one think but shoving your opinion into everyone's mouth is wtf.

 

[Boombar]

can someone reupload latest installer? mega download is not working

 

[BiteInTheMark]

740 is nothing late game. pillaging 700 gold is kinda acceptable. personally i dont mind those gold because it is damn easy to accumulate gold. try putting this in your mind pillaging on medieval days compared to present day. i dont know why all of you complained about that, especially on food. just like gaz said, all so called arm chair expert. in my opinion, just cry baby that wants vox do be done their way. heck just edit it if you dont like. criticizing and giving feedback is one think but shoving your opinion into everyone's mouth is wtf.

Unless you have Trader Sids or be a strong trader civ, the amount of gold you gain by pillaging a trade route is more than 1-2 turns of profit by your whole empire. And later on, several of them are on the way.
Do you really compare pillaging several improvements in enemy territory, which are defended by enemy units with claws and teeths, with triggering an instant death of an undefended civilian unit by pressing one button? Thats no comparison.
You not only gain 500 gold by pillaging a unit in modern era, you also hurt the enemy by 700 gold for the purchase of a new one, effectivly making a difference of 1200 gold for only pressing one button without any risk. + you deny your enemy any bonus which would happen, if he had finished that trade route (tourismn). Halfing all those values woudl be fairly enough.

 

[Stalker0]

I like the high pillage rate of TRs, I think it allows for a quick war that can do some serious hurt to a player, as opposed to every war being a total slog.

 

[Bhawb]

Anyone else having issues downloading from Mega? Tried on 3 browsers, the downloadable client, and this file just won't download for me.

 

[dostillevi]

Yeah MEGA seems to be down right now. Hopefully they fix it soon.

 

[Charos]

Could someone throw the installer up on Google Drive or something in the meantime? Mega's been down for a while.

 

[Bhawb]

Mega itself isn't down, I just downloaded a couple other mods off Mega, but maybe one of their servers or something is having issues.

 

[azum4roll]

Can confirm AI is very good at pillaging trade routes - they actually station units in neutral land right on your trade route so your caravans/cargo ships pass through and are pillaged off their turn! A problem though: how do they know where your trade units will pass through?

 

[Viralvoid]

Just finished my first deity game, and overall, I think the game is interesting.
I have no concrete opinion on growth because I personally feel it's the same, however, the AIs have lesser population than what I expected. I might want to test a few more non-Tradition games, so I can properly say something.

I played Arabia (Thanks to @CrazyG's tutorial ), standard, communitas and deity.

Spoiler Mongolia, Fes and Sukothai :

Turn 316 shows the average 20-ish pop empire of the Mongols and some cities from Morocco and Siam. The Mongols conquered Ethiopia and vassalized Morocco and Siam. His social policy is Authority, Fealty, Imperialism and Autocracy.

In this image, we can see 3 tradition capitals, Mine is 49~ 1 turn to 50 pop and victory (Tradition, Artistry, Rationalism, Freedom), 32-pop Sukothai (Tradition, Statescraft, Industry), 33-pop Fes (Tradition, Statescraft, Industry).
My capital is not focused on farms, It's simply 3 whales, 1 fish, 1 atoll, 3 towns, 1 academy and 3 manufactory.

Spoiler China and Soshone :

I expected China to have higher population because of the food bonuses, but it's higher compared to Mongolia, Siam and Morocco. Her tradition capital is 35 (Tradition, Artistry, Imperialism and Freedom).

Then we have the 28-pop Moson Kahni, his cities are lower compared to China and Mongolia. He conquered Brazil before I even met him, he chose Authority, Fealty, Imperialism and Order. The AIs population is lower than mine, but I think it proves nothing because Mongolia conquered 3-tradition Civs, and it does affect the overall population of Morocco, Siam and Ethiopia. Also, I'm the only civ who has rationalism, and 15 Freedom (Just clicking everything without thinking after my two 3rd-tier policy).

On Happiness, I think its fine, My rating is from 60%-80% during ancient, classical and medieval, then 80% higher after renaissance because I stabilize my empire.

Spoiler Easy Money :

Rigging city-states gives me 22,400 gold and science every 14 turns. It's fun, but I think it's too much.