Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Nov 6, 2016.
Edit: Wrong thread.
Are you using RED modpack? just curious.
I'm disappointed to see Carthage get the nerf but it is understandable. I like that extra supply in Authority
Reduced CS for siege units slightly
How much was it changed?
Cool changes, thanks a lot G.
Quick question: will a notification for being nuked be implemented? I know it sounds stupid but in my latest game Pedro Nuked a city of mine (on another continent) and I never noticed because I was busy focusing on the front.
Something like a nuke icon and a phrase: "XXX CIV (PEDRO II) HAS USED NUCLEAR WEAPONRY AGAINST US!! Make them pay! (last bit optional)"
Long time lurker, LOVE the expansion.
Yeah, does it cause the problem?
I'm not using RED modpack and I'm getting half gold on thrift. (don't have Asceticism so I don't know) I'm playing single player, huge, immortal as Assyria, but on the 10-28 modpack. This issue might be a bit older than this new version.
EDIT: Asceticism seems to work fine for me.
Did the brazilwood camps really need a nerf? Im not a fan of having both a terrain limitation, and an anti-adjacency rule on the same improvement. Yeah, I know the maya one has this too, but its really powerful and the yields are far more significant at the beginning of the game.
I just started a game with them on 10/28, and am off to a good enough start that, much as I love it, I thought the gold is OP. It's almost like playing with training wheels.
So when I saw the line about adjusting AI improvement logic, I decided to do some tests to see if I could trust automated workers now. Long story short, no I cannot. Not even a little. It felt like workers were maybe a bit less village crazy, and even managed to make a farm supercluster at one point, but there was simply too many glaring inefficiencies for automation to not be anything but punishing.
I don't know if you're still looking to work on this area of the AI, but here's what I consider the three unforgivable worker sins which prevent me from ever automating them:
1) Workers still improve tiles outside of the range that a city can work. This is the big one. As a Tradition player, this above all else means that automation cannot be used. Obviously I want workers to connect resources outside that range, but watching them build completely useless farms and villages when the city right next to them desperately needed improvements was physically painful.
edit: Never mind, looks like I've been the victim of a bug. I was doing my testing and playing as Mongolia lately. Turns out that, for reasons I have not been able to figure out, workers will improve tiles outside of the range for them and them alone.
I was using the Border Blob strat, so I tried everything I could related to border growth to see if that was the effect. Using/not using the following had no effect: Ger, Angaktor Wat, God of the Expanse, Sovereignty, Tribute and founding additional cities. I also tested all of the same things with Brazil and Russia, neither of which ever had workers improve tiles outside of the city range. The only thing that seemed to trigger it was the act of playing Mongolia.
Will submit a proper bug report as soon as I figure out how to do so. Nice to find out that workers are slightly less dumb than I thought though.
2) Workers still like to build random villages too much. I realise that with Rationalism you often want as many villages as possible, but that's just one specific case out of many. Especially in the early game, having your workers focus so much time and land to inefficient improvements can really kill your growth. Aside from villages benefiting from roads (or trade routes, if possible) I feel like the workers should be prioritizing farms more. If I want more villages for my specific build, it's a lot less work to micro manage workers to build them in every available spot than it is to tell them to build more farms all game.
3) Forts are built far too frequently and far too early in priority. Especially in the early game, whether or not I build a Fort is a rare and complex decision based on my neighbours, the terrain and my current army. According to the AI, they need to occupy every available tile along contested borders and should be built immediately. I really feel like this sort of improvement should be left to the player to build, or at least very low on the list of priorities.
Those are the three main reasons, though Forts are honestly much less severe and can be micromanaged with much less hassle. In general, I feel like the improvement priority should be something like this:
Resources > Bonus Resources > Villages on Roads > Unique Improvements > Lumber Mills > Farms > Mines > Random Villages
A priority list like this would mean I could trust workers to connect resources and get high value villages going first, followed by the typically insanely strong unique improvements. Very rarely will you want to replace a village on a road with a farm, so this can be handled by the player if it comes up with little hassle. I put lumber mills above farms because it can vary heavily depending on not only your Civ, but the policies and religious beliefs you've taken. This way you can make the conscious decision as a player to chop down forests if you want and let your other automated workers place farms there. There is going to be some competition between farms and mines on freshwater hills, but I personally feel like keeping potential farm clusters and growth is more important.
Just my two cents.
Well thats what I was trying to say, its really fun but the nerf certainly isn't wrong. However I try to play out all my games, and as Carthage I find while getting ahead is easy, almost winning is pretty easy, actually getting to the win can be tough, and it feels really bad if the AI stages a comeback. I wouldn't say they are OP
No, I realized that we are basically on the same page. "OP" is tough to define -- you could be right that they're not. Being easy to play isn't quite the same thing.
Haven't played Brazil yet but I see this as a buff more than a nerf. You can't spam them for massive Culture quite as much anymore but they can be built on Forests and not just Jungles, and the free luxuries will come out to a lot of gold, especially in bigger games.
Is there some overall write-up of how happiness works in CBP?
For like a while, hence Vox Populi. Citizens and Cities no longer generate unhappiness, although unhappiness can still spawn from citizens through neglecting a city's infrastructure, urbanization(having specialists), starvation, and pillaged tiles.
The wiki is outdated in some areas but this should still be mostly accurate, though it's actually median of city yields that's used as the threshold and not average.
I agree that forts are built with a too higth priority, but I like the current frequency :
Workers build fort on tiles that you will never work with your city, and it is the best possible improvement for a tile that will never be used by the city.
i will switch to ethnic units instead. I didnt know that RED is using DLL or something gamechanging aside from reskin/ units rescaling. I have had some problems in past and RED is just one thing that can be pointed as troublemaker.
I disagree. Food is very important unless having happiness issues (I'd say, over 20 happiness, food is the resource that should be improved first), uniques are usually better than improved bonus resources, and mines/farms works better than lumber mills, even villages on isolated good tiles where farm clusters cannot be achieved (aka random villages) I prefer them before lumber mills, specially without workshops/universities in the city.
I think that the automated workers are already doing a good job, specially when a new resource spawns. Sometimes a village gets in the way of an otherwise good farm cluster, but that's easily solved. Just manually control everything at the beginning, and leave them automated as it becomes hard to manage. Forbid features removing in the options.
It really does. I disable it and thrift gives me right yields. Thanks for the comment!
Edit. Oh, God. Actually it's not. I thought it's working, but I removed and reinstall with no-EUI version, there is still that problem.
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