New Version - November 6th (11/6)

[vyyt]

i will switch to ethnic units instead. I didnt know that RED is using DLL or something gamechanging aside from reskin/ units rescaling. I have had some problems in past and RED is just one thing that can be pointed as troublemaker.

I think there are several components in the R.E.D. If you are using just the ones which reskin units, change the size of unit models or the unit formations, you should be fine (or at least that was the case before). If, however, you are trying to use some sort of R.E.D. containing a DLL, as you say, then you will have a problem. You can use only 1 DLL at a time. What kind of problems were you having with it (sorry, I could not find much at GitHub - only your report about the Moai and one more - I forgot what it was, but seemed unrelated to R.E.D.).

 

[Erikose]

Thanks for testing this, Aldebaran1997. Love RED and been using it for years as I like the flavor it brings to my visuals. Hate to give it up.

- E

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I think Catapults etc were nerfed in the wrong way. It would've been better to buff ranged units instead by giving them access to some cool promos.

Right now thee catapults lost so much CS, the city bombardment (if the enemy also has mathematics) forces you to back one off every 3 turns or lose it. Considering how tough Wall + hill cities are, it turns into a hell beyond imagining in cases of some weird hilly-foresty cities. Thankfully the AI for some reason still will sometimes shoot a melee unit instead, because if it did shoot catapults - even 4 could not have been enough for many walled garrisoned cities.

Also disappointed to see Chateaus aren't as good as advertised in the changelog (only got +1Gold). Maybe they could use +yields on some tech? Because as it is, they still could use something more to show that they're from a later era than the ancient era UIs. Maybe +1Food somewhere in the line? Or another +1 Gold on Economics? Polder and other later UIs could perhaps also use a well-intentioned tiny pinch in some direction so they also get lots from teching up.

And Amber is still +2 Science. Poor berry deserves its 3.

 

[Gazebo]

I think Catapults etc were nerfed in the wrong way. It would've been better to buff ranged units instead by giving them access to some cool promos.

Right now thee catapults lost so much CS, the city bombardment (if the enemy also has mathematics) forces you to back one off every 3 turns or lose it. Considering how tough Wall + hill cities are, it turns into a hell beyond imagining in cases of some weird hilly-foresty cities. Thankfully the AI for some reason still will sometimes shoot a melee unit instead, because if it did shoot catapults - even 4 could not have been enough for some walled garrisoned cities.

Also disappointed to see Chateaus aren't as good as advertised in the changelog (only got +1Gold). Maybe they could use +yields on some tech? Because as it is, they still could use something more to show that they're from a later era than the ancient era UIs. Maybe +1Food somewhere in the line? Or another +1 Gold on Economics? Polder and other later UIs could perhaps also use a well-intentioned tiny pinch in some direction so they also get lots from teching up.

Ranged attacks on ranged units uses RCS as the metric, not CS, so your argument does not hold water.

Chateaux already have tech-related bonuses. Quite a few, actually.

G

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Ranged attacks on ranged units uses RCS as the metric, not CS, so your argument does not hold water.

Chateaux already have tech-related bonuses. Quite a few, actually.

G

Oh, disregard that then. It's weird though, I've never seen a city with just a wall throw stuff at my catapult and lose 30% of its hp as a result, but then AI usually preferred to attack melee units before.

In-game my worker tile overview (when building those things) says the Chateuxerxessessels only have 2 tech bonuses - +1 Culture on Printing Press and something on Flight, so it's a total of two, but I admit the worker interface sometimes is very wrong so I gotta check the tech tree to confirm.
Otherwise, aren't you mistaking it with Feitoria? It gets 3 IIRC, 3 +2 yield buffs on Renaissance 1st tier techs and nothing else.

EDIT: Confirmed it in the tech tree. 2 only. I doubt those count as quite a few, considering certain ancient era UIs have way more medieval-and-later improvements than 2, and they work from the very beginning. and are more common.

 

[8bitBob]

I disagree. Food is very important unless having happiness issues (I'd say, over 20 happiness, food is the resource that should be improved first), uniques are usually better than improved bonus resources, and mines/farms works better than lumber mills, even villages on isolated good tiles where farm clusters cannot be achieved (aka random villages) I prefer them before lumber mills, specially without workshops/universities in the city.

Some uniques may indeed be better than bonus resources, but it's not just about strength. Very rarely will you have more than 4 or so bonus resources in a city, which means that it won't take workers long to improve them, whereas you could have workers spending dozens of turns putting down less efficient unique tiles like Ekis before they get to connecting that nice deer or bison tile. Both priorities have downsides, but one has a more punishing and long lasting worst case scenario.

As for villages vs mines vs lumber mills, there's enough merits for any of them in enough situations that it seems pointless to argue which is better. That being said, you're right that using forbid feature removing is a fine way of controlling forest usage while allowing for more potential automation. Lumber mills could be lower in priority for this reason.

I think that the automated workers are already doing a good job, specially when a new resource spawns. Sometimes a village gets in the way of an otherwise good farm cluster, but that's easily solved. Just manually control everything at the beginning, and leave them automated as it becomes hard to manage.

I agree that automated workers are fine for connecting new resources and maintaining established cities, especially now that random worker shuffling has been fixed, but I don't agree that they can be trusted to work in large empires with new cities. The high priority on food for these cities means every worker in the area needs to be micro managed, otherwise you spend your time constantly replacing villages that were immediately built right next to the village you just replaced. Growing cities and getting farm clusters going represents a huge portion of the time you'll be improving a city, so if automated workers can't be trusted for this task then they can't be trusted the majority of the time.

 

[Zymos]

• Reduced CS for siege units slightly

How much was the CS of siege units lowered?

 

[Gazebo]

How much was the CS of siege units lowered?

By 1-2.

G

 

[JungleBucks]

PAPA PEDRO'S GETTING A BUFF!!!

And a unique resource on top of it! I'll need to give them a playthrough when I get the chance.

 

[Zymos]

By 1-2.

G

And it only affects the normal CS and not their Ranged CS, ergo they are now more vulnerable to melee attacks but they hit just as hard and take as much damage as before from ranged attacks. Is that a correct assessment?

 

[Gazebo]

And it only affects the normal CS and not their Ranged CS, ergo they are now more vulnerable to melee attacks but they hit just as hard and take as much damage as before from ranged attacks. Is that a correct assessment?

yes

 

[zeta]

So, this happened. Didn't bother to post this to Github, but seems like a pretty stupid decision by Spain. Also, I should mention that their empire is far far away.

 

[matlajs]

I think there are several components in the R.E.D. If you are using just the ones which reskin units, change the size of unit models or the unit formations, you should be fine (or at least that was the case before). If, however, you are trying to use some sort of R.E.D. containing a DLL, as you say, then you will have a problem. You can use only 1 DLL at a time. What kind of problems were you having with it (sorry, I could not find much at GitHub - only your report about the Moai and one more - I forgot what it was, but seemed unrelated to R.E.D.).

im actually using RED modpack( at least steam title says so). There is anything mentioned about DLL changes IIRC. but i am honestly not sure if all my problems are RED related. Im just saying that RED is only one reall mod i use along with VP( except Flag promo/ faster aircraft and sometimes RAS wheni get bored with some civ)

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

So, this happened. Didn't bother to post this to Github, but seems like a pretty stupid decision by Spain. Also, I should mention that their empire is far far away.

Eh, tbh it's not the worst of cities. I would've settled it too sometimes. It needs a Lighthouse + Harbour and it'll be fine, especially with Seaport, and it'll be real good if Spain takes Imperialism for +1Prod +1Science per tile and works enough specialists.

 

[zeta]

Eh, tbh it's not the worst of cities. I would've settled it too sometimes. It needs a Lighthouse + Harbour and it'll be fine, especially with Seaport, and it'll be real good if Spain takes Imperialism for +1Prod +1Science per tile and works enough specialists.

Nah, I would never settle a city on one tile island, even if it had any sea resources. At least not in her position. Her empire was far away, she was friend with me (borders to the south, which are Chinese)...

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Nah, I would never settle a city on one tile island, even if it had any sea resources. At least not in her position. Her empire was far away, she was friend with me (borders to the south, which are Chinese)...

Ah yeah, I looked at the map and I agree, in that case it's really not a good decision, unless she uses that to make a foothold of sort. But one tile cities are fine, I remember settling one surrounded by fishes and atolls and I really enjoyed it, and sometimes getting an annoying foothold like that is useful, though you are getting destroyers when she still has frigates. That is unwise of her to egg you on like that.

cool civ colours mod btw, I use it too

 

[BiteInTheMark]

I thought Ilteroi was working on the AI settle logic?
I really hate it when AI plants cities the majority of player with intelligence bigger then a potato would never set. Playing on a big map and the AI only plants cities at minimum range together and block themself is simply idiotic.
Would it be possible to reduce the value for luxuries for the AI, iam so annoyed of this permanent min range city spam to my own cities. In my last game the inca placed a city for 3 landtiles with one cacao and around 6 coastal tiles between one of his cities and my capitol.

Iam really asking myself if I play wrong, planting cities in most of the time with 5 or atleast 4 tiles between them. o.o?

 

[ExpiredReign]

...
Iam really asking myself if I play wrong, planting cities in most of the time with 5 or atleast 4 tiles between them. o.o?

This is a valid point you raise. A lot of us, you and I for example, will always go for the maximum tile distance so we can eventually get all the resources with fewer cities. However this raises another salient point: is waiting until the city grows enough so you have citizens to work those tiles better than 2 smaller cities that will work them almost straight away?
I'm beginning to question my style of play regarding this as I often don't get the immediate boost I need by settling where I do. Perhaps the current AI is favouring quicker access to the tile over long-term growth?

 

[jaymrobinson]

http://civ-5-cbp.wikia.com/wiki/Happiness

The wiki is outdated in some areas but this should still be mostly accurate, though it's actually median of city yields that's used as the threshold and not average.

Thanks, I should have checked the wiki first.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

This is a valid point you raise. A lot of us, you and I for example, will always go for the maximum tile distance so we can eventually get all the resources with fewer cities. However this raises another salient point: is waiting until the city grows enough so you have citizens to work those tiles better than 2 smaller cities that will work them almost straight away?
I'm beginning to question my style of play regarding this as I often don't get the immediate boost I need by settling where I do. Perhaps the current AI is favouring quicker access to the tile over long-term growth?

Sometimes the starting positiong is forcing you to plant some cities you dislike. But so often I see AI starting in mid of pangäa and squeezing all these cities together. I dont say, they have to place them correct like a hexagon 6 tiles away, but the first 3 cities all only 4 tiles away from capital makes no real sense to me. The bonusses for difficulty may help them a lot, else i couldnt explain how cities in mid of arctic ice or tundra is growing at same speed then my cities.
The AI is playing already pretty good, but I think, the settlement logic is the last big issue, VP have. If i could remember where, i would change the settings for minimum city distance to 4 hexes to help the poor AI a bit.