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New Version - October 12th (10/12)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Oct 12, 2016.

  1. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I'll say this - Barbarians are definitely more of a threat in VP compared to previous versions. But that's entirely intentional - it was far too easy to just spam buildings, settle, and expand with no real threat in prior versions. Barbs were a nuisance, not an actual problem. Now, barbs affect build order and behavior in the first 100 turns, which adds more nuance to what was otherwise becoming standardized fare.

    re: Authority being 'the weakest' tree, a reminder from prior discussions on the topic. Authority, like Imperialism, benefits from conquest. The trees both pretty much demand it, thus if you are taking these trees without actually using them as intended you are going to feel a bit gimped. Furthermore, because conquest is a zero-sum game, the bonuses of these trees are lower (taking a city is a reward in and of itself, one compounded by your opponent's loss).
     
    steemroller and Zares like this.
  2. zeta

    zeta Mod Addict

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    I thought barbarians were designed to be a nuisance in the first place? Hinder your progress just a bit, not give you a mass of problems?
     
    Dimmy likes this.
  3. notque

    notque Artificially Intelligent

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    I have been playing authority without conquest as the better tree. These nerfs have be question if I will take authority every single game, so they seem to work as intended.

    Then again, I am not an upper skilled player. I play Deity on Vanilla, and King on VP without understanding all the strats etc. I find games enjoyable, and difficult.
     
  4. Bromar1

    Bromar1 King

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    I actually like the tougher barbarians. They're no longer just a minor nuisance and they scale throughout the game so they are always relevant.
    I will say that they are a bit too frustrating to progress or tradition starts. What about just reducing the range at which barbarians will wander a bit?
    I think in the previous version, barbs are popping up near resources. I like the idea of having authority be able to clear out barbs to get choice settling locations whereas progress or tradition have to make a non trivial investment to expand.
    Let authority be defined by being able to expand early and have the first picks on territory. I agree with reducing the healing from kills but I think that a small buff to it's mid to late game should be added to compensate. What about +X% to great general spawn rate or -Y% settler build cost? Maybe happiness per garrison could scale with era?
     
  5. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    I agree that Authority helps at conquest, but Imperialism just doesn't do that much until it's finished? Sure, you embark faster, but it doesn't help at fighting much. Only once you finish Imperialism does it give you two (very good) promos and awesome yields on the sea that makes the tree. Before that, it's pretty bad. No bonus to fighting until you finish it, and it provides so little Culture it doesn't help you at that much, if at all.

    All the time I pick Imperialism, I'm like "why didn't I take Industry instead" unless I have a very strongly cultural civ and/or Inspiration so I can get to the good stuff (finisher, farms and factory) very fast. In that case, it pays off because I am not in the period of "wasted 3 policies on unimportant filler" too long. Otherwise, I stay away.
    Industry gives superior Production over all and so much gold you can just straight out buy yourself an army pretty much every turn if you're wide enough, and you likely are at this point. I mean -30% (IIRC) military production from Imperialism is okay, but with Industry I can just buy it instantly from just the opener because it gives so much Glod that I also will have enough of it to potentially help building stuff in my conquered/base cities. It'll give me thousands upon thousands of gold in the long run. And a nice discount on purchases, too. And less unhappiness from conquest due to less poverty. And more trade routes so your conquered cities can get Production routes if you wish.

    Basically, Industry is better even at conquest until Imperialism is completely finished. Rationalism arguably is too, though not so much - it can give you a Science lead, some production, but it's not going to help you fight unless you outtech your enemy significantly.

    It's not like Industry is OP, it's stronger than medieval policies but not overwhelmingly so. IMHO Imperialism would be good if its best rewards weren't all on the end. Like, Ironsides on one of the first policies instead of the Finisher? Moving free Garrisons to the opener so the Factory policy is not much, much stronger than the others in the tree? Or just Gold on conquest + free Garrison + Factory changing places with Farm policy? Some of that'd be very sweet.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
  6. avl8

    avl8 Prince

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    I really like new barbarian spawns. It makes early game challenging, exploring now is much fun.
    I also like slight nerf to Authority and a nice buffs to Tradition. Both makes high difficulty level games more fun.
    You can still rock AI hard on Prince and King, but you will get some challenges from rough barbarians.

    In my opinion it makes game more fun )
     
    Zares likes this.
  7. notque

    notque Artificially Intelligent

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    I played authority every time now just for the hammers. The extra hammers and going wide was awesome. add in the settler, and the garrison happiness/culture and it was a great setup. N
     
  8. matlajs

    matlajs King

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    i have to absolutely agree. many times i found myself picking authority even i felt like ,, Wouldnt be progress/tradition better for this civ'' ? but i felt so many times to tempting ,,safer'' start and nice culture/science boosts from barbs. authority also have most safe start regarding happines due to its garissons and good border growth before monument. On king difficulty is possible win easily with authority even without efficient use of it. Thats enough, when it helps you through ancient/classic era.
     
  9. M@drox

    M@drox Chieftain

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    I am definitely a fan of the new barbs. I still play with raging barbs on too. Combined with recent change that allows AIs to declare war before the map fills up with cities, the ancient and classical eras are intensely enjoyable playing on Diety level. :clap:
     
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  10. ExpiredReign

    ExpiredReign Deity

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    If users are not liking the newer barb invasions in VP, they are going to hate Civ VI!
     
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  11. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    That's what I was thinking.
     
  12. Navanod

    Navanod Warlord

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    Sorry for bringing up the old topic of Stonehenge again. I was commenting that the AI are really aggressive in the last version and grabbing SH on turn 24-25 on average.
    With this version, it is now even earlier! I am seeing even turn 20 grabs although the average seemed to be turn 22 now. Even with save scumming and min/maxing, I am unable to beat that at all
     
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  13. Navanod

    Navanod Warlord

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    Wait, you mean Skirmishers will now heal on kill with Dominance!?
     
  14. Willy_the_Kid

    Willy_the_Kid Chieftain

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    Is it intended for Cataphracts to spawn from barb camps at the start of the game? I just started a game in which my city has been attacked by 2 cataphract barbs before turn 10. It feels a bit ridiculous. This happened on King difficulty BTW.
     
  15. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    That's a mod conflict with Enginseers events mod. You should probably update.
     
  16. Willy_the_Kid

    Willy_the_Kid Chieftain

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    I believe I already have the latest version of his mod. What is it exactly I should update?
     
  17. Takagi Hiro

    Takagi Hiro Prince

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    I don't suppose it would be possible to add a toggle for this feature?
     
  18. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    BALANCE_CORE_BARBARIAN_THEFT in CBO.

    Keep in mind that this was a bugfix for DLL intentions from Firaxis, not a 'feature.'
     
  19. Takagi Hiro

    Takagi Hiro Prince

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    I appreciate the reply, but I guess I should be more precise... For the coding unfriendly people, how would I go about disabling it? Is there a certain file I should be looking for?
     
  20. Bromar1

    Bromar1 King

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    Has anyone noticed that land trade routes are being weird? They're not following roads but instead going off road even though it's the same tile distance to get to their target city
     

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