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New Version - September 7th (9-7)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Sep 7, 2017.

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  1. Legen

    Legen King

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    You probably had more great writers born beore than artists and musicians; the patronage fills half of the number of points demanded for the next GWAM, it isn't a fixed number. So, if you have -/300 for your GW and -/150 for your great artist, you'll receive 150 points for the former and 75 for the latter.
     
  2. Beniito

    Beniito Warlord

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    Thats what I thought, but I've had more artists than musicians, yet I get the same value for artists and musicians :confused:
     
  3. crushboss

    crushboss Chieftain

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    Are you out of hard drive space? If not, try a clean reboot and shutdown all non-essential background tasks including anti-virus. If that doesn't work then download the Manual Installation folders.
     
    Grennana and vyyt like this.
  4. Legen

    Legen King

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    Are you including free artists in this? Free great people don't increase the amount of points needed for the next one. Outside that, no idea how that would happen.

    By the way, getting a great musician in the Ancient Era with this UA hurts if you're not tradition.
     
  5. Blue Ghost

    Blue Ghost King

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    Yeah, not having a slot for the great work of music kinda sucks, but the +3 happiness from the concert tour can help quite a bit with early growth and expansion.
     
  6. Beniito

    Beniito Warlord

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    You're right. After generating more artists, I'm now getting more artist points than musician points!

    If you have a religion, then you can use grand temple as it has a great work of music slot. You can also buy mandirs with faith which have great work of music slot
     
  7. Gokudo01

    Gokudo01 Emperor

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    what do you think about artistry ? it doesn't seem that strong but I need more opinions about it.
     
  8. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    I love the science per great work boost when going tall. Another 20% in your capital is huge.

    But overall its not great. The culture per world wonders policy (and science for natural wonders) is something I really dislike
     
    Owlbebach and Aldebaran1997 like this.
  9. doublex55

    doublex55 Prince

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    Yup, also the happines per 3 policies. Both are boring because they dont change the way you play AT ALL.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  10. Ziad

    Ziad Emperor

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    Yeah Artistry feels a bit too niche, although some civs make really good use of it. It's basically the default pick for Egypt for example. I just find Statecraft and Fealty to be more well rounded and viable for any civilization regardless of win condition.

    Generally speaking though, it's a little off.

    1) Heritage Policy is weak and unexciting. In most games you'll have two natural wonders at most. You also won't have enough wonders for the duration of this policy's relevance for the +2 culture to matter all that much. It's not terrible, but generally it's not picked early enough to warrant its use. I find the right side of the tree more immediately powerful.

    2) Opener feels wasted unless you take Tradition. Unless your culture is really lagging. The bonus generation to Artists and Musicians is unused for significant periods of time.

    3) Guild production bonus comes far too late for it to be beneficial. You will only ever have 9 guilds and you can only have 3 different ones per city. It just doesn't feel all that impactful, and it's far too limited for a final policy.

    4) Most of the power of the tree comes from the scaler. 5 science and 5 science per city is huge, and that's before any modifiers. That's the only part that genuinely feels exciting, but at the same time it's unfortunate that it basically carries the tree.

    ---

    Perhaps the Heritage policy and the GWAM bonus could be swapped? The Science from the Natural Wonders and Culture from World Wonders would be a little more relevant at the time you pick it up. It would have similar immediate value to the other openers though.

    I would also suggest making guilds buff the city with % modifiers rather than flat bonuses. If Fealty deals with buffing Production during WLTKD, then perhaps Guilds can increase gold generation in their city by 10% with potential for stacking during Golden Ages. If that's too strong, then something else. I just don't think such small flat bonuses are powerful enough given how limited Guilds are to begin with. It's not like the justifiably small Fealty finisher buff given that it provides 8 total yields per city. That's almost as much as Guilds production/culture would give 1 city if it had all 3 of them (9 yield total).
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
    Txurce likes this.
  11. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I dunno, I feel like it is right in line with the other medieval branches now. If anything statecraft has the potential to blow the yields out of the water on the other two branches (because of synergy with diplo buildings). They've each got strengths, and the artistry scaler is very, very useful.

    G
     
  12. Ziad

    Ziad Emperor

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    Right but it feels like it carries the tree. Is that fine?

    I personally don't mind that Artistry is niche, but I would like to feel more compelled to pick it up rather than reserving it for a select few civs.
     
  13. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I mean, every policy has a use. IMO most players vastly underestimate the value of tourism and GWs for any victory condition.

    G
     
  14. doublex55

    doublex55 Prince

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    If artistry is right in line then the scaler should be nerfed in order to put some more power into the actual policies.

    Also, if part of the goal of the change from aesthetics to artistry was to seperate tradition -> artistry then the GWAM rate has no place in the opener because only tradition can make use of that.

    I don't think artistry is underpowered, and most of the policies are fine. I think some power just needs to be shifted around so we can get rid of the useless ww/nw policy and boring happiness policy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  15. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    Regardless of the cureent balance, this is very true, unless players are going for a CV. I can tell from the relative dearth of mentions in posts re: VP.
     
  16. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I wasn't aware that tradition is the only place that you can get specialists from...

    Babylon is a great example. Gets a natural bonus to Scientists, but is also a great candidate for Authority. Authority->Artistry can be very strong for Babylon. And so on. 25% is 25% whether or not you took tradition.

    G
     
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  17. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Yep. Minimal unhappiness for wars, super-duper cities, growth from trade routes, more yields from trade routes...not to mention the security that a large tourism buffer offers against ideological pressure.

    G
     
  18. Galbias

    Galbias Prince

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    Very much like the changes to Japan, both from a thematic and a gameplay perspective. Sakoku was neat theme-wise but I really disliked the way it just put a giant roadblock for someone going for a culture victory.

    Netherlands sound interesting. Gaining/stealing a monopoly seems like it'd be difficult but it's hard to tell without trying.

    Also nice to see Statecraft getting a bit of Science, it definitely lagged behind there compared to the other Medieval trees.
     
  19. doublex55

    doublex55 Prince

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    Sorry, i meant useless at the time of picking the policy like Ziad said. If it was for example, a beginning policy im the tree then tradition could take it right away while non-tradition could wait until at least having artists.
    Right now there is a large opportunity cost to taking artistry for non-tradition starts because the opener provides nothing. Until you start working writers and is subpar until you start working artists.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  20. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    By medieval era you've got access to all specialists except artist and musician slots (barring some UBs). I don't see the issue TBH.

    G
     

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