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New Victory Condition - Role Victory

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Bad Player, Aug 27, 2011.

  1. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    My apologies on any misunderstanding by the "survive X turns". The "turns" was for quick-speed. To be appropriately adjusted for longer speeds.

    In my quick speed MP games, I barely see a game approach past turn 250.

    Perhaps I could make some adjustments for longer games ... if indeed people are experiencing very long games even in quick speed SP.


    at first I had many civs have a set time limit around 200-ish so that they don't "win early" by finishing their other conditions.

    Doviello have only a turn 100 limit because the middle game doesn't really start in earnest till turn 100 on quickspeed, and the Doviello are meant to be a rusher civ. (meaning that every game they win this victory, they rush-kill a civ in first 50 turns, and then simply don't die the rest of their turns. Also, the Lucian 50 kills or die means they will use Lucian alot (unless killed by a bear early on))

    Hmm ... I think I WILL alter the Kuriotate win conditions though ... I have a better idea :D



    -> As for the Sidar ... they strive for immortality and like to collect as much knowledge as possible, therefore they will want to be as close to such knowledge as possible. Catacombs less so, but even though its not a science building in-game, it is still very much a collection of ancient and arcane texts. Therefore Sidar must own the Library, but at least be friendly to the Catacombs owner if not owning it themselves ... which could lead to Sidar-Amurite relations since you mention Amurites like Catacombs. Yes, yes they do. It will help them more than anyone cause one of their conditions is one mage guild PER CITY. Yes, I didn't make it a requirement, but I feel that their current goals are sufficient.

    -> As for FoL vs Runes, there certainly is some tension. Especially between Neutral FoL and Neutral Runes. (as opposed to Good FoL and Good Runes). There beliefs may not differ as much as their practice of such beliefs ... but clearcutting and strip mining are certainly something runes followers would do, and this may anger those of FoL.

    However, you are correct in that such tensions could be minor in comparison to larger threats ... although it is mostly only Elohim, (sometimes) Malakim, Bannor, and Mercurians that actively go after such larger threats.

    I have edited several requirements :)


    // Again, comments are always encouraged!
     
  2. Jarrema

    Jarrema Master Voter

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    I will comment this one by one... most times by changing into something I prefer. But it is really good job!
    Warning: I am not good lore-wise.

    First part too easy! What do you mean by soldier? any unit? Then, for vampires, it is sooo easy to get 100 xp.
    Spoiler :
    I will change it to: 1 city pop 25 or higher, 1 soldier killing 500 enemies (by himself, not via spectres or other magic), 3 soldiers to 200 exp

    Adventurer exploring 3 lairs would be too easy IMHO. I do not like never/always
    Spoiler :
    All dungeons and lairs on the map have been explored, an adventurer exploring at least 5 lairs, at least 4 adventurers alive at the same time, Capture or Kill Acheron

    I like it
    Too easy with 3 level 8 arcane units. I do not like 'be first to...', but maybe in this case it will work
    Spoiler :
    have at least 6 arcane casters with promotions from at least 6 schools of magic each . Have a mage guild in each city. Have 8 archmage-tier arcane units. Be the first to research Arcane Lore.

    Good, but AC at 100 for 20 turns better suits Hyborem IMO.
    Spoiler :
    Have a planar gate in each city. Be the one to summon Hyborem. Own the Ashen Veil holy city, AV in every of your cities. Get the AC to 100, complete Elegy of Sheaim at least 10 times

    I think another condition is needed. I am not sure what it should be
    Spoiler :
    Kill Luichurp and Amurites if on the map. For each that is not on the map, kill a random civ. Summon Auric Ascended. Freeze at least 25% of world

    Partially too easy, I do not like 'be the first to research stirrups'
    Spoiler :
    pillage for total of 2500 gold, kill at least three civs. Have more cavalry units than all other players together


    I will post more later
     
  3. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    (Mostly @ Jarrema) Yet anyone may comment! :)

    I'm not certain if Elegy of Sheiam is repeatable in base ... I think there its just a 1-off ritual (unfortunately).

    I feel that requiring 8 "archmage level" units pidgeon holes the Amurites into death mana. (not that its a bad strat, its just a tie to death mana is not fully lore appropriate).

    Now as to the Shieam ties with the AC ... Hyborem wants hell on earth, while Sheiam want to END the earth. Therefore I see more of an AC focus with Shieam (plus the Shieam get a LOT more bonuses from AC than Hyborem ... although I guess Hyborem gets none of the negative affects, still ... lore wise ...) Edit: did reduce Sheiam's AC goal to 100 once, but also lowered Hyborems AC goal. added a bit to each's goals in response.


    As always, never/always are at least partially linked with lore. I *have* attempted to cut out excessive or unecessary nevers and always's. Although its inevitable that there will be at least a few. At least nevers are easier to live by, (and probably easier to code), so I'm trying to cut out all "always" and only use nevers.

    In the Grigori case, this has evolved into "Never run Nationhood, Military State, or Conquest" all for lore reasons. and never KO a civ either (take their last city). As I agree restricting them from capping capitals is a bit too limiting. To be fully tied to lore, I'd have to say "never adopt Godking" as well ... but honestly, I see Godking as more of a Bureacracy, thus for mostly gameplay reasons I didn't add that to the list of nevers.


    As for the Bannor, I'm glad we agree ... but just to clarify things ... when I wrote "Order in all cities" I meant ALL cities in the entire world. I've since revised this to all "non barbarian" cities. As I doubt it'd be fair to ask the Bannor to capture and convert all barbarians in a Terra or Archipelago map, just cause that "wouldn't be fair". Civs with barbarian trait leaders would still have to be converted however. This does not of course mean that Order has to be the state religion, for either Bannor or those they enforce the religion upon. Although doing so may help fulfill these goals of course.

    The "always/ nevers" I have are those that I feel cannot be equally substituted for alternative game mechanics. Although I admit that my initial list had some rather absurd always/ nevers. My current list of always/nevers, at least to me, seems more quest like and less raw limitation.
     
  4. Bad Player

    Bad Player Deity

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    Elergy of the Sheiam and Hallowing of the Elohim can be repeated as many times as you desire. :)


    I think it would be best if all conditions are what the AI naturally attempts to do currently. Currently the AI for Bannor might not try to eradicate OO/AV from all cities although it may try to declare war on evil civs. So eradication of a religion would not work so well unless it is just a multiplayer game.
     
  5. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    Well, I feel that UHVs (as in Rise and Fall of Civilization) are 99% only possible by a human. Usually as an alternative victory condition in Single Player, but perhaps as an Alt-Vic in MP as well.

    Now, there could be certain cases where a civ AI "accidentally" gets their UHV, but primarily this is for the player.

    Now, I could write a whole new list of AI-only UHV win conditions, that the player must keep them from. However, this is my list of PLAYER UHVs.
     
  6. Tielby

    Tielby Prince

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    Considering how difficult it is to summon Auric Ascended, what with the resource hit they take from converting all their territories to tundra/ice, I think it's sufficient.
     
  7. Bad Player

    Bad Player Deity

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    Well I felt that my list could reasonably be achieved by the AI "by accident". E.g. If the Ljosalfar are doing reasonably well then they would likely cover 80% (or whatever %) in forest; if the barbarians and Clan of Embers are doing well then they would likely raze a large number of cities; if the balseraphs are doing well they would likely capture a large number of slaves; etc.

    Do you see where I am coming from?
     
  8. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    Yes, but such things would be far too easy for a human player, in my humble opinion.

    And yes, your list may very well be a good list for AI specific UHVs.
     
  9. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    To help fill out BadPlayers' AI list,

    Infernal -> 100 citizens in Dis, AC reaches 100

    Mercurians -> Have 50 angels and one angel level 11 or higher, kill an AV following civ.

    Luichurip -> Build 200 golems, be the first to research Engineering.
     
  10. Jarrema

    Jarrema Master Voter

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    Yes, I mostly agree that BadPlayer's VC's would be good for AI, and Tasunke's for human
     
  11. Lade

    Lade Prince

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    I've always assumed that if you're smart and you actually manage to build Auric Ascended, then you have won the Illian victory because of the huge potential for conquering the world. Its getting there thats the problem.

    What size map are we talking about? Razing 10 cities won't work for you on a tiny map.

    Some of those are very, very easy in comparison to one another, or if they happen you've probably already won anyway. The Sheiam's is fairly easy to obtain with a small civilization, while the Infernal would basically have achieved victory already.
     
  12. Bad Player

    Bad Player Deity

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    Perhaps that's a good thing Lade because it means that while you know that you have won the game, actually finishing off all the opponents (through conquest) is just boring grind work.
     

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