[GS] New victory conditions speculation: Scientific Victory

New science victory: Stop global warming. You dont need a spaceship if earth is still liveable! :D

And that would indeed be a science victory.
Or chop the world and use that production to leave on your spaceship before the sea rises. :p
Or you play as Kupe.
 
I also agree in that 1-It's going to get pushed into future era, and 2-it should also include a lot of investment in energy and resources.

Tho one thing I'd like to see is victory conditions bumping heads through the world congress, as in say for example the Diplo victory requires you to enact policies that make earth a stable place to inhabit long term (and make you the world leader while at it), while Scientific is all about ensuring the survival of humanity through expanding to another planet.

If you only make it so that increased natural disasters could let you enact policies that either deals with the issue by enforcing green industries (diplo) or investing in space tech (scientific). Heck it would even piss off domination types that want their industries as they are.
 
I could see they change it so that you have to send a spaceship to Alpha Centauri after sending one to Mars.
 
I find scientific victory the easiest to get. I think they're going to add a new stage after reaching Mars, maybe..."find water on Mars?" :p

Seriously, I think they should change the effect of the Royal Society building, to spend load of builders to complete projects makes the scientific victory very easy, and this becomes even easier with Reyna's ability to buy districts.

Anyway, I just want the scientific victory to be more difficult.
 
I find scientific victory the easiest to get. I think they're going to add a new stage after reaching Mars, maybe..."find water on Mars?" :p

Seriously, I think they should change the effect of the Royal Society building, to spend load of builders to complete projects makes the scientific victory very easy, and this becomes even easier with Reyna's ability to buy districts.

Anyway, I just want the scientific victory to be more difficult.
There will be quite some strategic resources requirement, I'm sure of that.
 
I find scientific victory the easiest to get. I think they're going to add a new stage after reaching Mars, maybe..."find water on Mars?" :p

Seriously, I think they should change the effect of the Royal Society building, to spend load of builders to complete projects makes the scientific victory very easy, and this becomes even easier with Reyna's ability to buy districts.

Anyway, I just want the scientific victory to be more difficult.

If they keep expanding on the Mars colony I imagine the next step would be to make sure the colony is stable and that the first martian born takes a rocket back to earth. Tho it doesnt sound as climactic as developing warp speed and traveling to Alpha Centauri.
 
New science victory: Stop global warming. You dont need a spaceship if earth is still liveable! :D

I still think space exploration to be more inportant.We don't always go on a venture to find a new continent or planet because our home planet or continent is messed up but for the hope of finding something better and something different.Without exploration we would be nowhere.
However in this game I wouldn't mind it getting tied to a environmental victory with the next expansion.

PS: Dinosaur didn't cause global warming.
 
Thinking victories are going to be adjusted in Gathering Storm (and just getting to the end of my current R&F game), it came to my mind Scientific Victory is one of the most difficult ones to counter --

Sorry, but... what??? I stopped reading right there. SV is in my experience the easiest to counter. If you are having trouble stopping an AIs SV, you are not using your spies well, or at all. The AI has a sole SV "strategy": it plays "wide" with its SPs. IN appearance, this is very effective and difficult to counter, but in reality, it's as easy as beating a 2 year old in chess. You need one or two "super spies", promoted to 3rd level with at least one with the Rocketry disruption promotion, and then the right policy cards, and you send those two on permanent vacations in foreign soils...

I don't think they will change the SV. Hopefully though, they will change the AI in its, among many many failures, inability to defend against spies.
 
Anyway, I just want the scientific victory to be more difficult.

How can they make it more difficult for you, though, without also making it more difficult for the AI?

I'd be fine with ideas to make the science victory more interesting, but just making it harder means every other victory type gets easier, as right now the only victory the AI will consistently win (albeit very slowly) is a science victory.
 
Scientific victory should be a Dyson sphere.
I'm not sure how that contributes to this thread, but I stand by it.
They should have a science/religious hybrid version of the Dyson sphere that requires competence in both but lower requirements other either. Instead of building a sphere around the sun, you just build a cybernetic virtual reality sphere around everyone :D.
 
I'm going to guess you're going to need some Seasteads before being able to win, as the sort of "Habitation Module" pre-requisite. Otherwise, yeah, I would expect that simply pushing out the mars components to the new era would be the main changes.
 
The way they talked about it in the livestream - with the guy-who-was-not-Ed (I forgot his name) talking about how he was now going more for science victories with the "new science stuff" made it sound like they did more than just extend it. We'll find out though.
 
Many good ideas and comments here. Due to work, I was not able to check everything and add my own responses last week, I wll try to summarize some points now, or at least, provide some direct answers.

Sorry, but... what??? I stopped reading right there. SV is in my experience the easiest to counter. If you are having trouble stopping an AIs SV, you are not using your spies well, or at all. The AI has a sole SV "strategy": it plays "wide" with its SPs. IN appearance, this is very effective and difficult to counter, but in reality, it's as easy as beating a 2 year old in chess. You need one or two "super spies", promoted to 3rd level with at least one with the Rocketry disruption promotion, and then the right policy cards, and you send those two on permanent vacations in foreign soils...

I don't think they will change the SV. Hopefully though, they will change the AI in its, among many many failures, inability to defend against spies.

Maybe my wording was not correct - it is not it is not easy to counter it (and get the time you need for a different victory). My main gripe is it is a counter in which you cannot recover from failures, so once you start "blocking" a space victory, you know you have to speed up any other victory you are trying to achieve (specially if you are being peaceful).
I have been playing with spies focused in blocking space victory, and I kept AI at bay probably for 100-150 turns (all spies destroying spaceports and factories, except one quartermaster). Main point is, this could be easy with a single AI opponent racing for the victory. It gets more complicated with the limited number of spies , and three-four civs to keep track off. Of course, I was going for a peaceful score victory, so the objective to hit turn 500 complicated things. In that sense, it was just frustrating to see any failure (RNG) in destroying an "active" spaceport was just one "life" less I had. Was even more frustrating when Scytia managed lo launch two components just the turn before the spy destroyed the spaceport.
Of course, I have blocked it via war as well several times (and in this game, after the two Scytian lucky launches, I had to resort to war too… if nuking all Tomyris' spaceports can be considered "war" in a strict sense and not just relentless destruction :) ), but I find off-puting the combination of (a) having an artificial limitation on the number of resources (spies) you can devote peacefully to stop this victory plus (b) that once a "point" (launch) is scored, there is no way to take it back, forcing you to "race" against the space race.

Compared with cultural victory, you can both increase your culture output, raising the treshold to be achieved, and steal some of the sources of tourism (which has the effect of slowing the enemy and helping you raise the treshold). It might not be more perfect either, but seems more dinamic (in certain sense, can be compared to ending a match at a fixed score, or at a fixed score + x points advantage (e.g. tennis) <- the first is a race for the last point, the second has the increased challenge of outclassing your rival).

In that sense, I consider the option to "lose" some of the space modules you sent would indeed add an additional challenge (and drama) to the space victory, as well as additional strategic layers (rush all launches at risk, or plan for "supply" launches to ensure your already launched modules are well preserved). I do not see it as adding randomness (as the decay of modules can be calculated, and the only actual "random" factor is the success of spies, which is already present). And I think the extended tech tree Will be meaninful for the space victores if adding improvements for stronger modules.

Nevertheless, I see other potential interesting options in the thread, as involving the new resource and power mechanics in the space victory, which may tie in turn with the ecological theme (the launch projects might consume relevant quantities of power, that you need to provide either from fossil sources - risking the environmental consequences -, or by developing new, Green technologies). I do not think they will completely switch the theme of scientific victory to ecology, but it may be relevant for it.

I like as well the considerations to tie in the world congress (not only for scientific victory, but for several others as well, being able to raise some type of emergency focused in blocking a victory: hey, this guy wants to get alone into mars: ¿should we enforce an embargo in its aluminium and power-source imports and maybe dismantle his spaceports?. Hey, this guy is converting everyone to his religión: ¿should we push to reconvert X cities and make it more difficult for him to spread?. Hey, everyone wants to go to this guy's place... ¿should we offer other different venues and demonstrate his tourism spots are not that worthy?....)
 
The way they talked about it in the livestream - with the guy-who-was-not-Ed (I forgot his name) talking about how he was now going more for science victories with the "new science stuff" made it sound like they did more than just extend it. We'll find out though.

Really? I thought I heard exactly the opposite. I thought when asked about victories he said he would "extend" but really hedged on saying it would be anything more than extending.
 
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