New Wonder Revisions

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Aug 28, 2020.

  1. WhiteEyes

    WhiteEyes Chieftain

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    After finally beat the first 2 Arab UHV with The Spiral Minaret and House of Wisdom built in my cities, I think the HoW's hammer cost arent so bad, but "double production speed with Library" would be a cool feature, if it's possible.
    But since the tech UHV is easily beatable without House of Wisdom, I doubt the wonder will be much of help even with triple bulbing ability, especially since you need to build lots of armies.
    Maybe change it to "1 free tech for every GP discoveries"?

    The Krak des Chevalier deserves attention here, both the current effect and the building requirements are too Spanish-sided. My suggestion is either removing the Catholic state religion from the requirements so HRE and Muslim civs could build it or make it only require Catholic so France can also make it.
     
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  2. ShinobiHus92

    ShinobiHus92 Chieftain

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    I would love if the Roman Pantheon would be included in the game. We need more Roman style worldwonders, Hadrian's Wall would also be an awesome addition if those mods exist of course..

    Spoiler Pantheon Rome :
    1920px-Fachada_del_Panteón_de_Roma.jpg
     
  3. Leoreth

    Leoreth Vampire of the Blue Moon Moderator

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    That's not what this thread is about.
     
  4. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Simperator Knoedel

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    Meanwhile I'm still holding out for Broadway. :/
     
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  5. brett0007

    brett0007 Warlord

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    *weeps in thorium*
     
  6. MechatronicJazz

    MechatronicJazz Prince

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    You should get that looked at.

    I like the smaller meltdown chance idea, but how often do meltdowns happen as is? How much of a benefit would it be?

    I like the idea of an extra free building for colonies, but if it is supposed to be more of an immediate benefit than a long term one then it should be a building that will help the city quickly. Something that you would build eventually for the long term benefit anyway, but that you often forego early on because the production isn't there yet. Alternatively, the idea for reduced maintenance in colonies is also good. Instead of being for a set number of turns, it could be until the wonder obsoletes, in which case the wonder can obsolete around the time that the Spanish and Portuguese empires began declining. It could work well if it causes economic instability not long before their colonies are supposed to break free.
     
  7. h0spitall3rz

    h0spitall3rz Grand Vizier of Your Mind

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    I also thought of reduced colony maintenance for the duration of the wonder, though I'm afraid it could conflict with the English UP as well. England managing to grab El Escorial will strengthen their UP, making them more OP. While it may just be a relatively short game timeframe, it will still help a lot in catapulting England economically and technologically further.
     
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  8. Force44

    Force44 King

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    House of wisdom and El Escorial

    My two cents:

    House of wisdom. Allow more control over the techs that are bulbed.

    my suggestion: In addition to its current benefit (double ajmount of bulbs + three in stead of two techs able to bulb) (1)When bulbing for tech(s), let all great people doulble as great prophets and (2) let all great prophets double as all other great people. (3) Allow for great people to fill in the gaps in their bulbing options. (4) Allow for multiple great people to research/bulb together.
    Additional/different suggestion: (5) Allow for allocation of superfluous bulbs
    In the form of bulbs or money or perhaps even production.

    El escorial. reward expansion in the short term.
    my suggestion: Setteling a new colony increases the pop in either your capitol or city with the trading company by 1.
     
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  9. Leoreth

    Leoreth Vampire of the Blue Moon Moderator

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    How about this for Silver Tree Fountain instead: Razing a city grants you its settled great people.
     
  10. FraggleJock

    FraggleJock Chieftain

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    El Escorial
    Mercenary combat victory grants a new mercenary in the attackers square (with smaller conquerer stacks to start with) and mercenaries have 1 less upkeep.
     
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  11. Cacaso

    Cacaso Chieftain

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    I liked this idea. But if in the game it is too strong, maybe change to Razing a city grants you part of the great people points in that city.

    Because if a civ like mogolia starts getting a lot of great general settled from other citys and then adding them all in a single city will be very strong, If it's just the GPP maybe it helps the mongolian CIV (or the CIV that builds it) to get another maybe 3 or 4 GP only.

    Then if the razed city has a Great general settled in the city, maybe add some points to your own great general points bar.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
  12. JHLee

    JHLee Prince

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    I agree, the AI loves to settle multiple Great Generals in one city.
     
  13. Matara

    Matara Chieftain

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    I suggest Escorial granting you an amount of money per 10 turn. It refers to Spanish treasure fleets, transporting gold and silver from the new world.
     
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  14. NerfCothons

    NerfCothons Warlord

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    Silver Tree Foundation - Feels both OP and difficult to manage at the same time. I'd want to give it a shot at least. Blow up the middle east and bring all those great people back to your core? Sounds fun.

    El Escorial - Agreed, the challenge is to create a buff that is meaningful but short lived. You could make it powerful but have a quick obsolete tech. Free worker for each settled or conquered colony and +X :commerce: for each improved resource on a continent other than your capital?

    Burj Khalifa - What makes it so difficult is that to build and use historically you have to build this incredibly expensive wonder in a place with low production. The intersection with oil feels like the essence of the wonder while trade is secondary. Make it require desert, make it a relatively cheap wonder, and give it +1:food: +3:hammers: and +3:commerce: on each well and rig?

    Gardens by the Bay - What about disconnecting or minimizing the amount of unhealthiness that comes from population size for that city only? I know you don't want to connect playing dirty to these kinds of wonders, but we're just disconnecting it from population not playing dirty. Even if it can be used to facilitate dirty play, that is true of any bonus health. Making it a singular city effect feels appropriate for Singapore.
     
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  15. happysheep

    happysheep Chieftain

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    No I personally think the current Silver Tree Fountain (STF) effect is pretty ok. I play as China alot and usually it is quite worth it to switch back to Shendao for like 20 or so turns and build inquisitors to remove Confucianism and whatever other religion in Xian to build the STF in Xi'an. Over the course of the game up to Geography you can usually get 3 or so GGs from terracotta army, and conquering Korea and India and Japan, which is totally worth the 20 anarchy turns. Honestly, I feel like the STF is the most underrated wonder ever, as proven from the fact that literally nobody even built it for a long time as shown by the python error given earlier by its effects. The new proposed effect is also extremely antitethical because it basically encourages the razing of good cities and why would anyone ever want to do that. even getting some good GPP out of it doesnt seem to be worth it to me. One must not forget that often, the AI usually settles their GP in their best cities which probably contains at least some great wonders, not to mention high population and many buildings. IMO considering how Mongolia usually barely has any production to spare for a wonder and gets religion spread before it can build it you should just remove the pagan religion requirement, lower the production a bit and add the additional effect of free lancer in every core city as suggested earlier to make it actually worth it to build
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2022
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  16. Dominus the Mentat

    Dominus the Mentat Warlord

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    It would be nice to review the Krak of the Chevaliers conditions and utility too. The wonder was basically designed to be built by the player and even with this I don't seem much opportunity to build it, since Catholicism doesn’t spread in the Levant or Egypt with much frequence and catholic european civilizations are not triggered to launch cruzades in the holy land.

    Interesting, since the mongols generate great people at a very fast rate before the wonder can be built. I think the great problem of the wonder is that requires much :hammers: to be built, taking in consideration it wil be built in Mongolia, which is a poor place in :hammers: even with its tiles improved and not much cities have settled people, although I have saw cases that an city have 3 great military advisors. So, depends much of how the AI would behave in the games.

    I also would like to suggest to change Salsal Buddha requirement of Buddhism as state religion to just having Buddhism in the city. I think the camel requirement is selective enough and the problem is that Buddhism is hard to spread naturally in regions which have considerable amount of :hammers: like Khwarazm, Hindu Kush and Iran.
     
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  17. Hickman888

    Hickman888 Prince

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    The Krak of the Chevaliers is a very useful wonder to build as the Spanish, as it puts their unique castle, which reduces maintenance, in all of their cities. I agree that it's too much of a hassle to build the wonder as any other civilization, though.
     
  18. Derdan

    Derdan Chieftain

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    Why not have El Escorial give the city +3:gold: per Silver and Gold resource consumed? It would synergize well with Spain's UHV requiring 10 of those resources.
     
  19. happysheep

    happysheep Chieftain

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    So... Leoreth are you going along with the changes to the Silver Tree Fountain?
     
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  20. Leoreth

    Leoreth Vampire of the Blue Moon Moderator

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    I don't know yet. It will take some time until I have the opportunity to make a decision.
     

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