Newbie -- Battle Mechanics Question

[QuinEd]

I'm on my second Civ3 game, still at Chieftain level, to say the least. Early on both times, the AI have ganged up on me and declared war. They are coming after me with Warrior units. I have Spearmen and Horsemen. And, they are kicking my butt! This is especially true if I attack one of their Warriors.

I figured that I was doing something wrong. I took a look at the various terrain bonus' and started choosing my battles carefully. This has resulted in limited improvement.

So, what am I doing wrong?

 

[punkbass2000]

Nothing. Sometimes the PRNG can be like that. It's probably not quite as lopsided as it seems, though you may have had a string of bad rolls.

 

[Tomoyo]

Welcome to CFC. Are you using spearmen to defend and Horsemen to attack? Are you covering your horsemen?

 

[Randy]

Does this help?

Attack/(Attack+Defence+Terrian bounce+city bounce+fortified bounce)=% to hit

so a warrior attacks a warrior on grassland
1/(1+1+.1)=47.6%

but an archer attacks a warrior on grassland
2/(2+1+.1)=64.5%

tank vs Infantry fortified in a size 13 city on a hill.
16/(16+12+6+12+6)=30.8%


Terrain Defensive
Type Bonus
City 13+ +100%
City 7-12 +50%
City Wall City < 7 +50%
Coast +10%
Coastal Fortress Naval attack +50%
Desert +10%
Flood Plain +10%
Forest +25%
Fortified +50%
Fortress +25%
Grassland +10%
Hills +50%
Jungle +25%
Mountains +100%
Ocean +10%
Plains +10%
Sea +10%
Tundra +10%

 

[LulThyme]

Basically, if your spearman are fortified, in a city or on most terrain theyll win over 75-80 % of the fight.
Horseman attacking should win also 60% maybe depending on terrain, if you are crossing a river etc.
Your horseman are weak to counter attacks, so either protect them with spearmen, or use their movement of 2 to try to stay out of range of counterattacks...

thats basically the strategy for spearmen + horsemen vs warrior
it gets more complicated when they have more than warriors! But start by mastering this and you'll be well on your way.

 

[QuinEd]

This is getting really frustrating, now. The AI has a single Warrior in a size 1 city that was just built. It is on plains and does not have city walls. I brought two Knights against this city. They are both dead! I then brought up 2 more knights. The first one was mortally wounded but able to retreat. The other one was finally able to kill the Warrior, only losing one bar of health in the process.

Recap:
AI: 1 dead Warrior
Me: 2 dead Knights
2 wounded Knights


This is starting to remind me of Civ1 where I would periodically lose a tank to a spear thrown by a phalanx. Only, it seems to be a lot worse in Civ3.

 

[Teshik]

Hi there.

Have you built barracks in your unit-producing cities? It does sound stupid, but the extra hitpoint on veteran units could be what you need.

Regarding battles : The Rule of Thumb I use : Take your attack value and enemy defense value, and add it. For example : Your Knight has attack 4, a warrior defense of 1. Each battle round, your Knight has a 4 out of 5(4+1) chance of stealing the warrior a hitpoint. But still, the warrior has a chance of 20%(1 out of 5) each time of winning against the knight...terrain and walls not included.
(this is basically a simpler version of the stats Randy posted above)

A tip : before you attack, gather stacks of units (knights, swordsmen, what you like) and attack cities with at least three units. That way, you won't get frustrated again if after your attack, only one teensy one-hitpoint-spearman guards the city and you have to start all over after two turns. (Everyone of us had this happen at least a gazillion times, I'm sure )

And remember : stacks in civ3 are goooood. In civ2, you could wipe out any stacks with a high attack unit. In civ3, only the best defense unit dies. The AI uses it too, if you're not careful. In one of my first Prince games, I suddenly had the Egypts declaring on me, and 50 cavalries/knights/musketmen(called "stack of doom") marching towards a city guarded with only one pikeman isn't a pretty sight

well, good luck...

 

[handy900]

This combat calculator will help

Build barracks so you get veterans.
Don't attack with less than full strength units, heal first.
Horses are great units, upgrades are very nice.
Attack with horses, defend with spears.
Get the AI to attack you when you are fortified, preferably on a hill or in a city, or behind walls.
Attack in numbers.
Wait for the AI to move off defensive terrain (hills) and onto flat ground. If they are in an AI city, you just have to attack anyway.
On higher levels, you'll want to bring artillery (cats, trebs, cannon) to wound units first before you attack.
Learn how to use rivers, don't not attack across a river, but try to get the AI to attack you across rivers.

This is getting really frustrating, now. The AI has a single Warrior in a size 1 city that was just built. It is on plains and does not have city walls. I brought two Knights against this city. They are both dead! I then brought up 2 more knights. The first one was mortally wounded but able to retreat. The other one was finally able to kill the Warrior, only losing one bar of health in the process.

That is very bad luck.

 

[DBear]

QuinEd, we don't have the smiley for nothing!

 

[Leo Tang]

Bare in mind that it is all probability.....u are not sure win if ur attack/defence is larger than the enemy, even u are 10 or 11 times stronger! Dont think that a tank must win a spearman, but u just get a larger probability to win over it. Try to amass more unit because the expected value will be more obvious--ur dead unit would be less then theirs--provided that ur attack/defence value is greater. If u attack a city, amass about more then 10 unit (for less fortified cities) to assult....ur probability of taking the city will be greater, and the extra unit (those who have not combat) can fortify in the city and kill resisters. Fast unit can withdraw, so use them more often.

 

[morchuflex]

Civ players also tend to have a selective memory: they remember bad rolls, not unexpectedly good ones.
In a recent game, I had a regular Numidian mercenary on a mountain (not fortified). He successfully withstood the assault of 3 warriors, 4 vet. horsemen and 3 vet. swordsmen in the same turn. And of course became elite in the process.
So, sometimes, YOU get lucky.

 

[thetrooper]

Civ players also tend to have a selective memory: they remember bad rolls, not unexpectedly good ones.

I do remember the good ones actually. Veteran infantry defeated a stack of 6 cavalry, 10 immortals and 4 horsemen in open terrain, creating a leader in the process

 

[Bartleby]

How about "mixed" luck...veteran cavalry fends off a bunch of longbowmen, promoting then generating a leader before redlining and running away, leaving the leader to his fate. I renamed the cavalry "Brave Sir Robin" and retired him to MP duty.

 

[thetrooper]

Hey Bartleby - that is court-martial. Should have disbanded the pathetic traitor

Happened to me too.