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newbie: confused about some conflicting defensive values

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Borderline, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. Borderline

    Borderline Chieftain

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    ==================================================================
    EDIT: followup questions on post #4
    ==================================================================

    1) RIVER DEFENSE BONUS

    i know that if attacking a unit from across a river, the defending unit gets a 50% defense bonus.
    i assume this also applies when you attack a town/city/metro.

    so i was curious if it has a river running across it, does it makes sense to position your troops on the same side of the city instead of across the river? or does it not matter when attacking a city?

    2) FORTIFY

    the Civ3 complete manual doesn't state the defensive value. both "Prima official strat guide" (p. 173) and "Play the world advanced strategies Prima's official strategy guide" (p. 113) has fortify as 50% bonus.

    i've read forum posts here stating that the strategy guide is wrong and that fortify is instead 25%.

    3) FORTRESS

    Civ3 complete manual states 50%

    both Prima guides have fortress giving 25%

    4) BARRICADES

    Civ3 complete manual states "doubles defense bonus of fortress"

    both Prima guides doesn't state anything about barricades.

    i just found out here from list of changes for Conquest in this site

    that barricade increases fortress defense bonus to 100%.

    also, im playing the Civ 3 complete on steam which includes all (both) the expansions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  2. justanick

    justanick Emperor

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    1. Rivers give +25% to the defender. So being on the same side when attacking a city helps.

    2. Fortifying gives +25% to the defender.

    3. Forts give +50% to the defender, barricades even +100%.

    All boni are additive.

    So attacking a pikemen fortified in barricade on hill(+50%) behind a river gives +25%+100%+50%+25=+200%. So that pikemen enjoys a defence value of 9.
     
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  3. Borderline

    Borderline Chieftain

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    GG!!.. much thanks!!
     
  4. Borderline

    Borderline Chieftain

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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    just 2 followup question.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    just wanted to clarify that you add up all the defense modifiers first, then multiply it by the defense value of the unit.

    what happens when the new defensive value doesn't add up to an integer but a fraction?

    for example, pikeman fortified on a plain behind a river is = 25% + 10% + 25% = 60%. so the defense value is now 4.8.

    is Civ 3 conquest able to factor in decimals for defensive values? if not, do you round up or round down? will the 4.8 value be rounded up to 5 , or rounded down to 4?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    my 2nd questions:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "Each citizen and building must also increase the Defence of units in city." that i read from a steam forum post #10

    https://steamcommunity.com/app/3910/discussions/0/617329150702943958/

    is that true? i don't think i read anything about that in any guides or manual.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  5. vmxa

    vmxa Deity Supporter

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    I am not aware of that being part of the formula for combat. I suspect they are talking about town/city/metro bonus. That is determined by pop. The only thing I can think of for buildings is walls and civil defense.
     
  6. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

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    As stated a couple of posts further down in the linked thread, individual pop-points and buildings also (at least theoretically) add small defensive-bonuses.

    But those settings (editable under the 'General settings' tab of the .biq, IIRC) aren't something I've messed about with very much (yet) in my Mod-in-Progress, so I don't remember for sure whether those bonuses only apply against bombardment, or against direct ground-assaults. I have a vague feeling they're for bombardment, but the poster Rastrelly seems to be saying otherwise...

    And this thread, comprehensive as it is, doesn't really clarify.
     
  7. Jivilov

    Jivilov Prince

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    Interesting. My understanding was that each defensive bonus was calculated separately, with all fractions dropped, then the whole numbers were added together. By that reckoning the Pikeman gets nothing from the 25% bonuses, 3 from the 100% bonus and only 1 from the 50% bonus. So in this case the defense would be 7.

    But if all percentage modifiers are added up FIRST, then applied to the Pike's base defense of 3 it would be 9 as you noted. Is that how it works? (If true then I've been laboring under a misconception for a loooong time). Thanks.
     
  8. vesperbot

    vesperbot Chieftain

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    In SMAC (Civ3's predecessor) there was no rounding, so it's safe to assume there is no rounding here as well, otherwise a 1 defense unit would have no benefit from say hills - which isn't so. So yes, you had a misconception, and the total defence of a fortified pikeman on a hill behind a river and a barricade is indeed 9.0. Should you however attack him from the same side of a river, he'd only have 8.25 defence.
     
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