Newbie questions about the most general things

Artifact

Chieftain
Joined
May 23, 2018
Messages
1
Hi, CFC!
I am what you probably call a returning player, and I have a few questions. The last time I've played civ2 was about 10 years ago, and I never had any contact with the community whatsoever. Recently I decided to look into what the internet has to say about this game and was blown away by the amount of strategy and exploits I had no idea existed. So I started reading some newbie tutorials and notable archive threads to get up to date. However, even some general points in those strategies seem to conflict each other. That leaves me wondering which information is the general consensus and which might be outdated experince. Endless freights and transport chains through the ocean, multiple discoveries in a turn - this abundance seems to contradict a game of crusader rush, for example. Thus, I pose my newbie questions to the community:

1. Is a caravan-filled rich democracy the best way to play? Or are there perhaps still some fundie strats that can compete in the speed and power?

2. Is there a consensus regarding the best conquest tech? The fastest, the least risky, the most efficient units? Basically, is there a "if you're doing conquest, you should go for X" rule?

3. How do you even get that many settlers? As soon as I learned about the rapid celebration growth, I have tried establishing as many cities as I can before Republic to quickly grow them later, but then I either leave my cities defenseless, or have not nearly enough settlers to road and irrigate the territory. I'm not even talking about caravans - it's either them or settlers, I can never have both.

4. Is the Great Library worth it or not? I have seen it placed near the top of some wonder ratings, but I can't help but notice a discrepancy it has with the fasttech strategy. If you are rushing either to space tech or to your preferred conquest tech and even gifting your keyciv to speed up the process, you obviously don't need the GL. The Great Library is best used if you don't care about getting off-path tech and tend to put your priorities elsewhere in general. The question is - do you? Is going for technological disadvantage ever the answer?

5. When to Rush Buy? I usually have a few hundred I can spend in the pre-Democracy times, but that's not much even considering partial buying through warriors and diplomats. So I'm never quite sure what to spend those on. Are there some general guidlines on what and when to buy, or is it just something that comes from experience?

All of the questions assume mostly deity-level play, although if there are some well-known strategies best executed at other difficulties, I would like to hear them too.
 
Hello!

I think you are asking too general questions, few specifics. The tactics of winning the game depends strictly on the specific game situation. There are the following parameters, which you must clearly formulate for yourself:

1). You play with AI-bots, or against real people.

2). How many civilizations are present in the game.

3). What level of difficulty do you have in the game.

4). The map parameters (large, medium, small - random, or it's some kind of special map).

5). Where you are on the map relative to neighboring civilizations (far, near).

6). What goals do you put in the game (to win through a spaceship, or to win through the conquest of other nations).

And so on. Already on the basis of these parameters, can give you some recommendations. For example, in some game the Great Library can be very useful. And in another - they are absolutely superfluous. In one game you can win the game at the Crusader stage. And in another - you need to wait for a little more powerful units.

Take an example from a participant in a neighboring forum (above). He laid out his preservation of the game. And he is given advice on the best tactics specifically in this game.
 
My advice here is for single player game when trying to build a big, beautiful civ. Something like trying to maximize GOTM score (a scoring system where you must increase your in-game score by ~2% per turn to break even). Early conquest and early landing will have different advice.

1. Is a caravan-filled rich democracy the best way to play? Or are there perhaps still some fundie strats that can compete in the speed and power?

Democracy will achieve the best growth and income. Growing cities by 1 citizen per turn vastly outweighs the paltry benefits of some free support, a few tithes and automatically content citizens. Bigger cities produce more arrows, which means better caravan payouts (and more caravans, since large cities supply and demand differently from small cities, so you get more caravan commodities).

2. Is there a consensus regarding the best conquest tech? The fastest, the least risky, the most efficient units? Basically, is there a "if you're doing conquest, you should go for X" rule?

I think early conquest is best done with elephants, but I seldom play early conquest so others will have to weigh in on this question.

3. How do you even get that many settlers? As soon as I learned about the rapid celebration growth, I have tried establishing as many cities as I can before Republic to quickly grow them later, but then I either leave my cities defenseless, or have not nearly enough settlers to road and irrigate the territory. I'm not even talking about caravans - it's either them or settlers, I can never have both.

You can't have both, therefore you choose settlers. Most cities should not be defended beyond what you need for martial law in despotism/monarchy. If you have a city close to another civ, then defend it. If you have a city on the coast with lots of important wonders or that supports a lot of units, defend it. Otherwise, don't waste resources on defensive units that will never see combat. If the odd city gets captured, rush a diplomat or a couple of crusaders and take it back. You'll spend far less overall.

Don't irrigate. Before Mike's Chapel, you want your cities to be small so that you don't have to spend resources keeping them content. After Mike's Chapel, you should be in Republic, where growth only requires 1 surplus food, which you can get from the city square if you have a harbour and a reasonable amount of grassland. Build roads sparingly also, at least until the riot factor (extra unhappiness for too many cities) kicks in enough that you don't want to build more cities before you get Mike's Chapel. Perhaps you start irrigating after engineers.

4. Is the Great Library worth it or not? I have seen it placed near the top of some wonder ratings, but I can't help but notice a discrepancy it has with the fasttech strategy. If you are rushing either to space tech or to your preferred conquest tech and even gifting your keyciv to speed up the process, you obviously don't need the GL. The Great Library is best used if you don't care about getting off-path tech and tend to put your priorities elsewhere in general. The question is - do you? Is going for technological disadvantage ever the answer?

In classic, you can almost always get any tech another civ has through tech trading, if you have Marco Polo's Embassy to see what everyone has. The hostile nature of the MGE AI makes it harder to do that. Still, the Great Library is not only useless, it can actually be harmful. Getting a useless technology increases your technology costs, thereby delaying the acquisition of desirable technologies. Perhaps more seriously, different technologies are hidden in each round of research. If you play out your research path taking this into account, a "free" technology (from hut or GL) can actually delay your progress considerably.

5. When to Rush Buy? I usually have a few hundred I can spend in the pre-Democracy times, but that's not much even considering partial buying through warriors and diplomats. So I'm never quite sure what to spend those on. Are there some general guidlines on what and when to buy, or is it just something that comes from experience?

You mostly want to be building caravans and ships for your ship chain. Also harbours if your cities will soon be in a position to celebrate. If you don't have a clear priority, keep some funds as an emergency reserve. Then rush to enable micromanagement. E.g. a city with 6 production can save a turn on a caravan if you rush 2s from 18 to 20, and a 7 production city saves a turn if you rush from 28 to 30. Next best use is to rush when the cost of shields is 2, i.e. when you can rush 4 or fewer shields.
 
Leaving aside the math-based strategies listed above, there are a couple of reasons to build the Great Library (or any other Wonder): First, you get points for it. Second, if you have it, it means that none of your opponents have it.
 
Leaving aside the math-based strategies listed above, there are a couple of reasons to build the Great Library (or any other Wonder): First, you get points for it. Second, if you have it, it means that none of your opponents have it.

Of course it's good when there is an opportunity to create ALL Wonder of the World. So that the enemy does not get a single Wonder of the World. )

But as often happens, this is impossible because of the limited resources. And you should choose: either the Library, or something else. In the game against AI-bots, the Library is really useful (but not always). In the game against real people - for me the Library at the very bottom of the priorities. Since a human player can always find a way to block the benefits of the Library. )
 
I have never played against other humans. In my games, I push the science as fast as possible, and build every Wonder I can that could possibly help me, or at least hinder my opponents in that respect.

Of course in the Lalande game (Test of Time), this often means gifting technology to the alien factions later in the game to bring them to the point where they can research the tech I need to steal so I can get to Nona (the 4th level of the map; it's a gas giant planet with some incredibly nasty aliens).
 
I have never played against other humans.
In vain, you lost a lot ... Try, if possible ...)

For me, only games against real people (not only "Civilization", but other games) are of interest. The game against AI-bots is similar to the passage of "Microsoft Solitaire" in the Windows menu. Just killing time ...)
 
In vain, you lost a lot ... Try, if possible ...)

For me, only games against real people (not only "Civilization", but other games) are of interest. The game against AI-bots is similar to the passage of "Microsoft Solitaire" in the Windows menu. Just killing time ...)
PBP and PBEM games are okay with you? I took part in a PBEM game of the original Civilization board game.
 
PBP and PBEM games are okay with you? I took part in a PBEM game of the original Civilization board game.
I used the game through this method only 1 time (at the moment I'm participating in such a game on this forum). I've never tried it before. According to my impressions, now this method seems to me very "slow" ...) I'm used to a more dynamic and vibrant game.

Usually I use the online game via the Internet (with the help of Tunngle or Evolve) ...
 
I used the game through this method only 1 time (at the moment I'm participating in such a game on this forum). I've never tried it before. According to my impressions, now this method seems to me very "slow" ...) I'm used to a more dynamic and vibrant game.

Usually I use the online game via the Internet (with the help of Tunngle or Evolve) ...
There's a PBEM game of the original board game (pre-computer game) on CFC now? Or do you mean PBP?
 
There's a PBEM game of the original board game (pre-computer game) on CFC now? Or do you mean PBP?
I participate in the game on the TOTPP platform through hotseat. I do not know how correctly this format of the game is called. I do not know these abreviations ...)
 
I participate in the game on the TOTPP platform through hotseat. I do not know how correctly this format of the game is called. I do not know these abreviations ...)
PBEM = Play by email
PBP = Play by post

Examples: The PBEM game I participated in was in a Yahoo! group. Each player would email their orders to the host, who would then tell us the results. We would be sent an updated map and told which trading cards we had acquired. We were free to make secret alliances among ourselves and discuss strategy.

PBP - play by post - is pretty much how the people do things in the NES/IOT games here, in the "Other Games" forum. It's also how a lot of FRPGs are conducted on D&D-type forums.
 
PBEM = Play by email
PBP = Play by post

Examples: The PBEM game I participated in was in a Yahoo! group. Each player would email their orders to the host, who would then tell us the results. We would be sent an updated map and told which trading cards we had acquired. We were free to make secret alliances among ourselves and discuss strategy.

PBP - play by post - is pretty much how the people do things in the NES/IOT games here, in the "Other Games" forum. It's also how a lot of FRPGs are conducted on D&D-type forums.
Thank you! now I know... )
 
My attitude to Civ2 has always been to play for the enjoyment, rather than to crush the AI in the quickest possible time. Everyone is different & I'm not knocking the ultra efficient approach at all. I get the attraction of trying to 'clock' the game, but I've always preferred to play a more relaxed game, building up a story in my mind.

Playing hotseat games (we often refer to them as PBEM, but the saves are posted to a thread for the next player to download, rather than e-mailed to them) has always been my preferred method, or scenarios with events to help out the hopeless AI. I find competing with a human opponent, or a group of opponents & allies, is the most stimulating, and in such games I will try and be more efficient.

I'm probably not the best person to give advice to the OP, other than to enjoy yourself, however you decide to approach the game.
 
Welcome Artifact. As Buck2005 said a lot depends on the parameters of the game and your style of play. I, for example, enjoy landing games more than conquest games and hence try those more often. I am also a great fan of OCC (one city challenge: win the game with only one city throughout). Part of the beauty of this game is that "there is no one (or a few) ways to win".

There is plenty of good advice in this particular forum. However, the best way to learn hands down is to play comparative games as in the GOTMs. In the GOTMs all the participants start a single player game with the exact same save (posted on the forum). Each play according to their preferences. We then post commentaries and status snap shots and compare notes. There is no better learning experience than watching how other experienced players play in circumstances just like yours.
 
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