[BTS] News: BOTM 199 - Roosevelt, Monarch - Starts 1 Sept

[DynamicSpirit]

BOTM 199: Roosevelt of America.

It's America, and we know that the current US President, Donald Trump, is so full of honesty that he would never dream of doing anything like spying. No Sir, he'd never ever do anything dirty against his political opponents would he. So you play without espionage! Good luck. The no-espionage setting means that any espionage points from buildings are added to your culture instead. So maybe we'll see some super-early (espionage-less) culture victories! Note that the espionage points are still shown as such in the game (so for example, if you mouse over a palace, it'll still show as +2 culture, +4 espionage - but in reality it's generating +6 culture and no espionage.

By the way, circumnavigation with boats is possible (although I reckon pretty difficult).

Be aware that there is some gold to the North of the starting area, which you will struggle to to use properly if you settle in-place. You may therefore wish to explore before you settle.

Game settings:
Playing as: Roosevelt of America
Rivals: 6 AIs
Difficulty: Monarch
Starting Era: Ancient
Speed: Normal
Options: No goody huts, no espionage
Victory Conditions: All enabled

Map settings:
Map: Maze (slightly modified)
World Wrap: Cylindrical
Mapsize: Standard
Climate: Tropical
Sea level: Medium
Map latitudes: -90°S to 90°N
Roosevelt is Industrious and Organized, and you start with Fishing and Agriculture.
The Industrious trait gives +50% wonder production and double production speed of Forge
The Organized trait gives -50% civic upkeep and double production speed of Courthouse, Factory and Lighthouse

Unique unit: Navy SEAL (replaces Marine)
The Navy SEAL benefits from: 1-2 first strikes, and free promotions: amphibious and march. This compares with the Marine which has: 0 first strikes, and free promotions: amphibious.

Unique Building: Mall (replaces Supermarket)
The mall makes it much easier than a supermarket to buy lots of stuff that you probably don't need and in a month's time will regret buying. And - irrelevent tidbit of info - we don't really call them malls in the UK.

Starting screenshot
This is the start of the game (click for a bigger image):


Challenger Class Equalizers:
You play on deity level (but the AI stil starts with monarch level units

To Enter the Competition:
This competition will open at 00:01 am on 1 Sep 2020, server local time (UTC-6:00). From that date and time, you'll be able to get your chosen starting save >>>here<<<.
Submit the save after your victory (or defeat) here, by 5 Oct 2020.
Here is a link to a list of the differences between Vanilla, Warlords and BtS.

Software Versions
Windows: This game MUST be played in Beyond the Sword (NOT Civ4 Vanilla or Warlords), patched to version 3.19, and with the BUFFY mod version 3.19.005 installed. You can download the BUFFY mod here. Players using Windows Vista or Windows 7 are encouraged to read the notes on Vista fixes here.
Macintosh: This game MUST be played in Beyond the Sword (NOT Civ4 Vanilla or Warlords), patched to version 3.19, and with the Mac BUFFY mod version 3.19.003 installed. You can download the Mac BUFFY mod here.

While playing...
Remember - for your entry to be accepted, it MUST be your first attempt to play this game, and you MUST NOT replay any turns. If you make a mistake while playing, you have to live with it, learn from it, and carry on the game without replaying.
We will open 'spoiler' threads during the month for players to discuss what happens in their games. Do not discuss any details of your game outside those threads.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Another BOTM, and an intriguing one - thanks, @DynamicSpirit!

So espionage points are now culture points - but what happens with the Great Spy? And GSpy GPP points? Can we still build spies eg for scouting?

 

[Powerfaker]

Never played a maze map. Didn't even know it existed. Sounds like a lot of coastal land for Mister GLH.

I see 2 settle options so far, SIP or the PH 2S. Unfortunately moving south is away from the forests and what you get back is a total mystery. Maybe warrior 1NW reveals another option in that direction.
Only 1 resource suggests something strategic might appear .....normally.....like 1N of settler (?).

Esp=Culture makes Org boosted Courthouses interesting for border pops.
Like @FinalDistinction , I would like a bit more explanation about the consequences of no Esp =>The spy specialist seems available. Is the GSpy available then, only to be used for starting a GA? Will Communism grant a GSpy, something else or nothing?

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Like @FinalDistinction , I would like a bit more explanation about the consequences of no Esp =>The spy specialist seems available. Is the GSpy available then, only to be used for starting a GA? Will Communism grant a GSpy, something else or nothing?

ofc, we can get such info from WB/testing but since some of you know and BOTM is educational etc would be nice to save some time - so that we e.g. have more time to play civ for fun

btw, iirc from an online discussion, no espionage doubles culture limits, at least for border pops but I think also for legendary cities. If so, it may not be a great option for a cultural VC.

I also remember vaguely (e.g. just from reading) that GSpy points become generic GPP (ie random GP if GSpy points only, always GScientist if half spy half scientist points). Is that correct? What about spy specialists? What do we get from a GSpy tech?

 

[MarleysGh0st]

If gold is somewhere nearby to the north, I can't imagine wanting to settle to the south. So, warrior NW to see what he reveals. If still nothing, then settler NNW? Is the gold worth moving away from our only visible food?

 

[Fine_Distinction]

If gold is somewhere nearby to the north, I can't imagine wanting to settle to the south. So, warrior NW to see what he reveals. If still nothing, then settler NNW? Is the gold worth moving away from our only visible food?

Yeah, lol, it is designed to get us stressed on t0. I normally almost always SIP, just to avoid this conundrum.

I wish we had a scout, if we do not like that much what we see NNW (and nothing of interest from warrior NW), then we have an even worse dilemma - and 1 turn lost .

 

[lymond]

Gold schmold! Has no bearing on my decision. Pigs is focal point of settling without question. I was considering moving inland but did not realize this was a maze map. It's all coast! South would be my only move here maybe to save a hill, but it's not critical. I think that is a PH 2W of settler, which is tempting.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Gold schmold! Has no bearing on my decision. Pigs is focal point of settling without question. I was considering moving inland but did not realize this was a maze map. It's all coast! South would be my only move here maybe to save a hill, but it's not critical. I think that is a PH 2W of settler, which is tempting.

Yeah, we can clearly see water at least SW-SW.

I am actually tempted to go warrior 1S to understand better what SIP gives us or get a head start on scouting. Looks like settler is supposed to go N-NW anyway, probably whatever the warrior reveals? And since we have all forest (?) north warrior NW does not reveal 3N or 2N NW where the gold probably is, right?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Esp=Culture makes Org boosted Courthouses interesting for border pops.
Like @FinalDistinction , I would like a bit more explanation about the consequences of no Esp =>The spy specialist seems available. Is the GSpy available then, only to be used for starting a GA? Will Communism grant a GSpy, something else or nothing?

I haven't yet tested it fully, but my understanding from some Googling is that great spies are not available - and wonders that would normally produce spy great-person points instead produce generic great person points: You get the points towards a great person but the points carry no influence on what type of great person will be generated. I will try to test more, but it might not be before the game starts tomorrow. (I didn't leave much time for this discussion before the competition opens because I noticed there were no other games running after 1 Sept. Note this may mean the mac saves are a bit late too, since i haven't given @AlanH much time to prepare them).

 

[Tobiyogi]

I remember that setting from the past. It's beautiful, especially with ORG leaders. Courthouse is so much better because it also grants border pops. I think you cannot build anything like Spies and you cannot get Great Spies either.

What means Maze? Like a narrow stripe with water from all sides? If so, there could be even Fish "from the other side".

I would definitely not SIP but check out the river to the north (w/o losing the pig tile). In hindsight of a Great Wonder or two, it's probably better to kill forested plains 1N2W than the hill we are standing on. Maybe there is even a PH 2W?

 

[Pangaea]

Have never played a Maze map. If there is gold north, I don't want to orphan it, or have it postponed until we can get a city on the other side of the water. May be hard to get happiness here too?

Do we get extra points for beating the map with Maces?

 

[Mitchum]

It appears that random events are enabled. Those are normally turned off for BOTMs...

With no espionage, can we see the demo data for all AIs as soon as we meet them? I think some play testing is required before starting the real game.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

It appears that random events are enabled. Those are normally turned off for BOTMs...

With no espionage, can we see the demo data for all AIs as soon as we meet them? I think some play testing is required before starting the real game.

Yeah, played one test game already, beeling GLH, just got lighthouse to start it - and then a random event and my lh is destroyed

Not fan of random events, I am a control freak, I guess

 

[WastinTime]

espionage points from buildings are added to your culture instead

Wait, so we can use the EP slider to pop borders? or probably there's no slider?

 

[Pangaea]

It was mentioned upthread already, but the culture requirements is doubled. So each legendary city needs 100,000 culture and the first borderpop is 20. From what I recall from my early civ career (I really detested spy stuff then), all the graphs and stuff is available. Don't recall if that includes tech view, but maybe? Or perhaps not.

Don't recall if there is a spy slider for border popping, but it would probably be kinda inefficient anyway. I'd rather run science or gold. Unless in the very late game I guess when trying to pop borders for earlier domination.

Edit: Looking at the map again, I wonder if it's a floodplain 2N of pigs.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Looking at the map again, I wonder if it's a floodplain 2N of pigs.

2N? I think it is clearly forest. Or do you mean 2S?

 

[lymond]

hmm..looking at it close I think 2N could be an FP...forest could just be a trick from the tile 1S which is forest plain hill.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

PC saves are up

 

[AlanH]

PC saves are up

... and Mac saves, now

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I've now had a play in Worldbuilder to check how no-espionage works. What I found is:

• @Pangaea is correct - the first border pops happen on 20 and 200 culture, and a city needs 100 000 culture instead of 50 000 culture to achieve legendary status. I guess therefore that that all border pops would require twice the culture of a normal game.
• You cannot build spies
• Espionage-related buildings can still be built, and espionage points that they generate become culture points. I'm guessing (not verified) that all their other espionage functions are switched off.
• There is no espionage slider and I can't find an espionage screen either.
• Although you can't build spies, you can still hire spy specialists, if you've built the appropriate buildings. However...
• .... Espionage GPP points are interesting. You still acquire the points, but they don't lead to any particular great person. What seems to happen if a city gives only espionage points (for example from the great wall or from hiring a spy specialist) is that, you can reach and pass 100 points - the level at which you'd get a first great spy - but you won't get a great person. You can even carry on, so the game displays something like 130 out of 100 points needed. But if at that point, you hire another specialist - such as a scientist, the game now knows what type of great person to generate, so the next turn you'll get one (a scientist, with my example). The surplus GPP points do carry over, so the next turn, the game will show 30+a bit points towards the 200 for the next specialist. It seems to me that can lead to some interesting new strategies for forcing a particular great person - rely mainly on generic GPP points, and then hire the specialist of your choice for as little as one turn.
• Obviously, from how espionage GPP works, as far as I can see, it's impossible to generate a great spy.