[BTS] News: BOTM 221 - Brennus, Immortal - Starts Sept 20

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by DynamicSpirit, Sep 15, 2021.

  1. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    Speaking of which, the dun is a particularly stupid unique building from one point of view, namely, melee units can’t get gorilla II. Lame. The same is not true for the Gallic warrior. So that’s something. Hm... That’s interesting. That makes me wonder if melee units can get guerilla II if they start with guerilla I.


    Edit: Well the dun is even crappier than I imagined. Civilopedia states: free guerilla I Promotion for units built in the city, But it’s a lie. It’s not true for melee units, with the gallic warrior being the one exception that I’m aware of. It should state that the free guerilla I promotion is only for units that otherwise can get that promotion.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2021
  2. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Yes, the UU is nice and fun! Swords that jump forward on the map is nice, and since both celtic leaders are CHA it's very easy to get guerilla3 too, very nice promotion.
    Gallic warriors promote to some fierce macemen and later toward gunpowder units with guerilla3 and CR. Better not have cities on hills AIs!

    The dun though... yeah.. I stated one very rare case when it has sort of a silver lining, but it's rare.
    Worker stealing woth early archers might sound fun, but if you invest in a dun and in a barracks and archery, masonry and the archers themselves. Well thats a hell of a lot of hammers and beakers. :)

    Maybe there is something to be said for longbows or XBows, but I doubt it.

    Remember too that the dun obsoletes with rifles, so the only gunpowder unit to get them is muskets/grenadiers!
     
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  3. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Don't forget the double hammer Dun trick. How did that go @LowtherCastle ? Whip the dun with stone, gift stone+deer (or any other resource). Pillage the road to the deer. Next turn the Stone deal is canceled, so you have stone back, but get double hammer overflow. Rebuild road. (or pillage camp and re-camp, but that's more work)
     
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  4. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    @WastinTime Is that different from the regular trick to gift away stone after you have whipped some build that get bonus from stone?
    Some magic happening inbetween turns since you get the stone back right away....?

    And how is it different from regular walls?
    I try to do that in most games, build walls up to 40/50, then do 1pop whips to reach 100/50, gift away stone and get better overflow next turn.
    Am I missing out on some even better goodness?

    Is this a trick you utilize later on in the game with iron/coal too? (Ironworks / coalplants)
     
  5. MirrorGuard

    MirrorGuard Prince

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    I think it is a typo.It should be: T0 whip and gift away stone T1 cancel the deal by pillaging the road.

    Without this trick, stone bonus can be only used for building the wall itself since overflow will divided by 2. With the trick, 30 hammer from whipping receives a virtually general-purpose 100% bonus. Now we see the requirements for this trick: whipping and a single-purpose bonus which can be switched on and off.
    We can whip buildings(e.g. stable) in organized religion and switch to default to keep the overflow. Since Brenus is a SPI leader, such switching incurs no additional cost.
     
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  6. mscellaneous

    mscellaneous Prince Supporter

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    :lol::lol::lol:

    Looking forward to play this :strength:
     
  7. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    ...and not limited to 7 cities...:whipped:
     
  8. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    The one caveat with switching out of something like organized religion is that without Cristo Redentor you can’t switch back the next turn, obviously you have to wait five turns. If you’re building a lot of buildings at the time in those religious cities it can be quite a cost.
     
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  9. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    In very food rich capitals, I sometimes utilize this trick by prior to a visit into vassalage or nationalism, (for unit whipping and/or drafting, or simply releasing units from the queue with the +2 xp from vass).
    What I do is that I set up whips for the gold buildings (market/grocer/bank) and whip those while in burocracy, and then either utilize the overflow for buildings, or just rolling the overflow onwards for when I re-enter burocracy.

    The timing can be nice, since you have oftentimes reached what you where teching for so the opportunity cost for burocracy is low. And soon you will need to have the gold multipliers while in war.
    The capital can then be allowed to regrow so it's ready and up in population again when it's time to tech again. :)
     
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  10. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    For clarification, LC, gallics G1 promo is not connected to the Dun.
     
  11. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    True. The distinction I was making about the gallic warrior, which I discovered for myself just yesterday, is that unlike other melee units, the gallic warrior can take on guerilla I, II, and III.

    So your point in that context is that gallics only need a rax, dun is redundant. And krikav is making the point that these guys only need four XP to get the 25% hill battle bonus.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
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  12. MirrorGuard

    MirrorGuard Prince

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    That's what I have been doing in AD1000 scenario using Aztec. Sacrifice altar reduces whip anger fade time by half. It is a perfect match with this trick. I can switch to org-religion in T0, whip library in T2 and take it out of queue. Then in T5 I whip something else like harbor and switch to pacifism. During T6~T9 I can use the overflow for workers boats spys or settlers. Then T10 is the beginning of a new cycle.
     
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  13. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    no, IIRC, for best results, you can pillage T0 so you can use the stone on T1. I think you get the double overflow before stone is returned to you, but I'd have dbl check to be sure. You may be right. You were there when we did it!
     
  14. Powerfaker

    Powerfaker Warlord

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    Great trick. Didn't know it but will surely start using it.
    Finally an excuse to build walls. :) Early game this will be a nice prep for when a wonder becomes available, or you lack the growth rate to whip multiple pop and want to produce a worker/settler faster.

    Sadly, the weakest trait (Pro) becomes a bit weaker again. :undecide: Since triple amount will be halved, so you will only get 1,5 times rightful OF instead of 2 times (?) (only on walls/castles of course)
     
  15. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Oh. another rather obscure use for duns...
    They DO add more soldiers than regular walls.
    So if you want a way to bump up your power rating w/o having to pay unit upkeep, they can play a role.
    It's not much though! Equivalent of an archer or an axe or something around there.
     
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  16. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Nice twist to the challenger save. Good way to get more 'events on' games without disturbing too many.
     
  17. Fine_Distinction

    Fine_Distinction Prince

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    Mac saves are available - thanks @AlanH and @DynamicSpirit :D

    wrt to wall stone whipping trick - I have been familiar with it for a while, but never used it since walls seem so useless in general. and other than a free wall - and maybe some more control over timing? - we do not seem to gain much - one has to put 40h into walls/dun + 1pop - and we are getting 50h overflow, after a lot of hassle and risking messing it all up :(. Am I missing something or is it a dun whipping trick because it rarely is worth it for regular walls?
     
  18. Xcalibrator

    Xcalibrator Ultraviolet Catastrophe

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    Spoiler threads please? Thanks.
     
  19. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

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    Spoilers are up now
     

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