News: BOTM 27 - Starts 17 February

[mabraham]

If this isn't how it is supposed to work then this is a BUG.

1) I was generating nearly all my gold from priests
2) Research was at 100% with a few gold per turn coming in as surplus
3) I had no trade routes

That's impossible with three cities on Immortal. If all your commerce commerce was going to science because of the 100% slider, and you can run at most two priests per city from Obelisks for 1 each, I'd guess you were losing about 10 per turn. The gold you have to pay in city maintenance greatly exceeds your maximum income of 6 from your six priests.

I'd guess your slider was on 0% science.

4) I dropped the fourth city
... my gold per turn went up, my research went down
... the slider was still at 100%
5) I could not spend any of the treasury on research because there was no way to generate a deficit (100% converted 0)
... commerce from tile gold was less than city/troop maintenance
... priest gold plus commerce was greater than city/troop maintenance
... the research slider at 100% was converting NO commerce, there was no money to convert to research, yet the priests were generating surplus into the treasury
6) Once I was generating commerce in excess of expenses then the sliders began to behave as usual and I had no further problems spending down the treasury, other than I had to get into a deficit situation again

EXAMPLE: (turn numbers represent sequence not actual turn)
Turn 1:
... Commerce falls off (red negative number)
... Priest generate surplus to pay the bills (green positive number)
... Slider at 100% conversion of commerce
... Treasury increasing

Turn 2:
... 100% slider converts NO commerce
... Priest continue generating surplus directly into the treasury
... Research stalled at NONE

Turn 3+:
... Treasury continues to grow with no way to increase slider above 100%, allowing deficit spending

Turn ?:
... Enough commerce finally generated (tiles worked) to have something to convert
... Research increasing
... Treasury increasing

Turn ?+:
... New deficit created
... 100% now permits deficit spenddown of a very bloated treasury
... Research increasing
... Treasury decreasing

btw - I really didn't mean to take over this thread with this topic. I thought it was a known quirk of the arboria map.

@beestar Excellent read! Thank you.

Sorry RD-BH, you've got so many inconsistencies with how you're using "gold", "money", "commerce", "wealth" and how they interconvert, that it's impossible to discuss this productively any more. beestar's worked example is correct. Most of what you've said in this post seems impossible. In any case, we've hijacked this thread and should desist. Feel free to post screenshots illustrating what you think is the bug in a new thread.

Perhaps an admin can fork off this discussion for us?

 

[mabraham]

* You do lose commerce from "corruption" according to the number of cities you have and how far they are from a palace.

Oops, this bit was wrong. You pay for distance and city maintenance from goldgold, not commerce commerce.

 

[RD-BH]

Since arboria was just a huge sea of forest, I was trying a workerless economy to start.
I was aiming for a religious victory.
I founded hinduism and judaism.
I built obelisk (I don't recall if I had stonehenge) and artemis (2 priest + 1 priest).
Sometime around pop 4 I built a worker and researched hunting in order to camp deer.
BFC usually had corn+3xDeer or 4xDeer. I would <alt>G if less for this strategy.
I researched priesthood intending to research writing when I popped a GP.
I backed up and researched meditation, took monarchy with GP (and Hered. Rule) then researched writing to get to the later religions.
I founded christianity then dropped shrines and temples (4 priest per religion).
Then I proceeded to expand within my own cultural borders.
I never built library as I was only using writing to get to later religions (I would have built one eventually).

This is not a complete list of all the GP or research but the frame of what I did for about 12 games in a row. Everyone worked while I built up food then most would be priests generating GPP and Gold till the food ran out. I plussed/minused priest to keep a small inflow of gold.
This worked fine until I started expanding, at which point I discovered my little problem.
I don't have any saves from those games as auto save is overwritten with each new game, but it happened so often I should have no trouble recreating this situation.

I include this (thread appropriate) framework, not because it was successful, but because it was FUN 8) to play around with.

 

[neilmeister]

...
I never built library as I was only using writing to get to later religions (I would have built one eventually).
...

Wouldn't the 25% bonus research from a library help you enourmously to get to the other religions?

 

[RD-BH]

Wouldn't the 25% bonus research from a library help you enourmously to get to the other religions?

I was lightbulbing with GProphets and GMerchants and was intending to build libraries after post expansion economy was stable and the GP production slowed. Citizens were basically consumed with 4 turns on Apostolic Palace followed by 4 turns as Priests until AP was finished. I would have got there eventually and probably should have built it sooner. As it was, with weak military and only about 6 cities before borders closed in, I consistently lost to AP vote mid 1700s ... this framework was FUN 8) but I'm not good enough to push it to victory ... yet

New thread with screenshots of what has me puzzled.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=354741

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I've moved a subthread that queried something that happened in someone's game to the final spoiler. As if I need to say it again - please do not post details of your game in this thread. I know that in this case the person did have a genuine query and the ensuing discussion would likely have been of interest to quite a few people, but this particular discussion also gave away considerable details about at least one AI opponent in this game, and so could have seriously spoiled the games of anyone who hasn't started playing yet. If you have a burning question that really can't wait until you are able to access the appropriate spoiler, then you should PM the game designer about it.

Apart from anything else, removing the relevant posts from this thread this morning nearly made me miss my train which would've made me late for work.

 

[neilmeister]

Apart from anything else, removing the relevant posts from this thread this morning nearly made me miss my train which would've made me late for work.

Wouldn't this be taking one for the team

 

[mabraham]

Wouldn't this be taking one for the team

The staff already do! Props to them!

 

[da_Vinci]

Commerce commerce is mostly generated by working your city tiles, for example, non-forested rivers, cottages/hamlets/villages/towns, and specialized resources (dye, gold, gems, silver, and some others), with a small contribution from trade routes.

I'd agree with this in the early game, but you have had those later game cities with three trade routes each earning 7 commerce per trade route, right? Beats any specialist, most towns, and doensn't eat any food!

dV

 

[PutCashIn]

Yeah, late game Trade Routes are pretty good arn't they? giving a good reason to build marginal cities (other than score, you crazy 400K score people).

In fact, other than The Great LightHouse, alot of the trade route bonuses are reasonably late game, yeah? Corporation, FreeMarket, Astronomy, That-New-Coastal-Building in BTS (+100% foreign trade income).

PS. I'm about to get flamed for saying Astronomy etc is 'late game' arn't I...?